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The fool and the wise person - Dhamma Wheel

The fool and the wise person

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
chownah
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Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

The fool and the wise person

Postby chownah » Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:53 pm

SN 12.19 PTS: S ii 23 CDB i 549
Bala-pandita Sutta: The Fool & the Wise Person
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

(It starts with the Buddha describing a fool and a wise person but it seems the descriptions are the same. When asked what is the difference, the Buddha replies:)

The Blessed One said, "The ignorance with which the fool is obstructed, the craving with which he is conjoined, through which this body results: that ignorance has not been abandoned by the fool; that craving has not been destroyed. Why is that? The fool has not practiced the holy life for the right ending of stress. Therefore, at the break-up of the body, he is headed for a [new] body. Headed for a body, he is not entirely freed from birth, aging, death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair. I tell you, he is not entirely freed from stress & suffering.

"The ignorance with which the wise person is obstructed, the craving with which he is conjoined, through which this body results: that ignorance has been abandoned by the wise person; that craving has been destroyed. Why is that? The wise person has practiced the holy life for the right ending of stress. Therefore, at the break-up of the body, he is not headed for a [new] body. Not headed for a body, he is entirely freed from birth, aging, death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair. He is, I tell you, entirely freed from stress & suffering."
---------------------------------

Can someone explain this? Seems like the wise person is obstructed by already destroyed ignorance (how can that be?) and conjoined by already destroyed craving(and how can that be?)

Seems like double talk to me.
chownah

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equilibrium
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Re: The fool and the wise person

Postby equilibrium » Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:09 pm


santa100
Posts: 2673
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:55 pm

Re: The fool and the wise person

Postby santa100 » Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:52 pm


chownah
Posts: 6161
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: The fool and the wise person

Postby chownah » Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:31 am

Thanks to both of you. I can see how the ignorance was a past cause in terms of kamma......but to me the craving seems like a present condition.....seems like it says that the wise person is conjoined with craving and yet has abandoned it......maybe it is just poorly stated? Maybe it should say something like "the craving to which the wise person was conjoined"......or something similar.
chownah

santa100
Posts: 2673
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:55 pm

Re: The fool and the wise person

Postby santa100 » Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:33 am


chownah
Posts: 6161
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: The fool and the wise person

Postby chownah » Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:57 am

Yeah, I can follow this much better, thanks.
chownah


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