Two kinds of contact

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chownah
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Two kinds of contact

Postby chownah » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:10 pm

In DN15
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

It talks about designation contact and resistance contact.

What are they?
chownah

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daverupa
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Re: Two kinds of contact

Postby daverupa » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:44 pm

I think it's parsing internal and external sense bases: internal is involved with designation-contact, external with resistance-contact. Note that, in the formulation in that sutta, the dependent co-origination chain goes:

vinnana <--> namarupa --> contact --> feeling

The six sense bases aren't especially set out for notice between namarupa and contact, so instead we have internal and external wrapped up in two sorts of contact.

---

Maybe, though, it's designation-contact for mental phenomena and resistance-contact for physical phenomena, but since namarupa isn't mental-physical I think this must be mistaken.

santa100
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Re: Two kinds of contact

Postby santa100 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:49 pm

Designation contact (adhivacana samphassa): conceptual impressions through the mind-door
Resistance contact (patigha samphassa): sense impressions through the other five doors: eye, ear, nose, tongue, and body.
~~ http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/n_r/phassa.htm ~~

chownah
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Re: Two kinds of contact

Postby chownah » Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:58 pm

I'm wondering if when consciousness is conjoined with discernment if this is associated with designation contact and when consciousness is conjoined with perception and feeling if this is associated with resistance contact.
Also, in MN43 it talks about the purified intellect-consciousness divorced from the five [sense] faculties......is the term used for intellect-consciousness similar to the term for designation contact?...
chownah

santa100
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Re: Two kinds of contact

Postby santa100 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:33 pm


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daverupa
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Re: Two kinds of contact

Postby daverupa » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:02 pm


santa100
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Re: Two kinds of contact

Postby santa100 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:48 pm


Sylvester
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Re: Two kinds of contact

Postby Sylvester » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:52 am


Sylvester
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Re: Two kinds of contact

Postby Sylvester » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:13 am


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daverupa
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Re: Two kinds of contact

Postby daverupa » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:32 am

Do you suggest e.g.

"With mind-consciousness released from the five faculties through/via purification..."

?

Sylvester
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Re: Two kinds of contact

Postby Sylvester » Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:41 am


chownah
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Re: Two kinds of contact

Postby chownah » Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:50 am

To go a bit farther,
DN15 uses designating and resistance contact in asking three questions which I will number:

1). If the qualities, traits, themes, & indicators by which there is a description of name-group (mental activity) were all absent, would designation-contact with regard to the form-group (the physical properties) be discerned?"

2). "If the permutations, signs, themes, and indicators by which there is a description of form-group were all absent, would resistance-contact with regard to the name-group be discerned?"

3). "If the permutations, signs, themes, and indicators by which there is a description of name-group and form-group were all absent, would designation-contact or resistance-contact be discerned?"

.....and then it makes a sort of conclusion:

"Thus this is a cause, this is a reason, this is an origination, this is a requisite condition for contact, i.e., name-and-form.

Is 1) asking "if we could not describe mental activity could we then discern physical properties?"...... And similarly for 2) and 3)?

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daverupa
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Re: Two kinds of contact

Postby daverupa » Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:17 am


Sylvester
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Re: Two kinds of contact

Postby Sylvester » Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:33 am


santa100
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Re: Two kinds of contact

Postby santa100 » Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:51 am


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daverupa
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Re: Two kinds of contact

Postby daverupa » Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:51 am

Thank you for these notes, Sylvester.

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Re: Two kinds of contact

Postby Sylvester » Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:16 am

:anjali:

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Re: Two kinds of contact

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:28 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

Sylvester
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Re: Two kinds of contact

Postby Sylvester » Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:16 am

You'll have to thank Ven Nanananda, Ajahn Brahm and Ajahn Sujato for nudging me in this direction.

:anjali:


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