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How to distinguish consciousness and perception? - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

How to distinguish consciousness and perception?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
chownah
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Re: How to distinguish consciousness and perception?

Postby chownah » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:35 am

It is confession time for me! I have been talking about consciousness cognizing nod how this seems more active than just "presence of" when all along I have been making the mistake of thinking that to cognize meant to establish cognition.....but this is almost assuredly incorrect in that cognition is a term mostly used by scientists and has more or less the meaning of complex thought processes while cognize means (guess what!).....perceive!!

So, I've got to change horses in mid stream and I'm sure glad there is a raft close by!

Now I'm sort of confused.....I'll probably have some more questions to ask.

daverupa,
You seem to be leaning toward co- conditionality.......are you viewing the entire DO scheme as a Beck-Einstein condensate.....and thus experience being a quantum computer? When I change horses on midstream I often choose a horse of a different color! :quote: :jumping: :woohoo:
My speil checker sometimes changes your name to "day erupt" so don't be looking for any special meaning if I address you this way in the future.
chownah

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daverupa
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Re: How to distinguish consciousness and perception?

Postby daverupa » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:09 am


chownah
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Re: How to distinguish consciousness and perception?

Postby chownah » Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:47 pm

Bose it is. Mostly joking but since consciousness perceives (via cognize meaning "perceives") and perception perceives and since perception is part of the nama of nama-rupa it is starting to look like things are getting indistinguishable just like the condensate and by the way if they can't distinguish different particles then why do they refer to particles?.....since they can't distinguish them........just like why did the Buddha distinguish between perception and consciousness if they are doing the same thing? Also, the condensate is viewed (or at least I think this is right) as a quantum entanglement and one characteristic of an entanglement is that if you change one particle then all the others also change in the same way instantly......instantly as in taking zero time......instantly as in if some of the particles are far distant from the others it still takes zero time for the change in one to appear in the far distant other......instantly as in faster than the speed of light......so this is like co-conditionality on steroids.... .instant co-arising.

It is disappointing to dead end on my cognize mistake so I'm just being a bit silly to take the edge off my disappointment I think.

Your "presence of" for consciousness doesn't resonate for me as I can't see the Buddha teaching this kind of idea using the word for consciousness....I think he would just say "presence of" but I'm just guessing. I'm going to consider whether consciousness could simply mean awareness.......sort of like when you are unconsciousness you are not aware of what is happening....or if an ant was crawling on your arm but you were intently focused on a visual image you would not be aware of the tactile sensation caused by the ant.....but you would be aware of the visual....eye contact but no body contact.

chownah

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daverupa
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Re: How to distinguish consciousness and perception?

Postby daverupa » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:42 am


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Spiny Norman
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Re: How to distinguish consciousness and perception?

Postby Spiny Norman » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:07 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
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Spiny Norman
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Re: How to distinguish consciousness and perception?

Postby Spiny Norman » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:18 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
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daverupa
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Re: How to distinguish consciousness and perception?

Postby daverupa » Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:11 pm

Last edited by daverupa on Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

chownah
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Re: How to distinguish consciousness and perception?

Postby chownah » Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:16 pm


chownah
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Re: How to distinguish consciousness and perception?

Postby chownah » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:08 pm

daverupa,
So far I haven't found any really good questions to ask but I'm still looking/thinking.

Can't say as I understand "presence of" yet.........could it be presence of experience?....

You wrote, "basically, vinnana simple accounts for 'what it's like' to have whatever experience is being captured by awareness, etc". Now you've got awareness capturing experience and vinnana accounting for some quality of this capturing process or perhaps awareness holds experience still long enough so that vinnana can get a good look at it to make the determination of what it is like! :jawdrop:

I really like the MN38 fire quote. Is this implying that nibhanna is when the fire of consciousness goes out?

chownah

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daverupa
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Re: How to distinguish consciousness and perception?

Postby daverupa » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:19 pm


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Spiny Norman
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Re: How to distinguish consciousness and perception?

Postby Spiny Norman » Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:56 am

Last edited by Spiny Norman on Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Spiny Norman
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Re: How to distinguish consciousness and perception?

Postby Spiny Norman » Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:59 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

chownah
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Re: How to distinguish consciousness and perception?

Postby chownah » Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:02 am


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Spiny Norman
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Re: How to distinguish consciousness and perception?

Postby Spiny Norman » Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:37 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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SDC
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Re: How to distinguish consciousness and perception?

Postby SDC » Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:53 pm



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