Dependent Origination

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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clw_uk
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Re: Dependent Origination

Postby clw_uk » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:18 am

True it can be taken in this way but he does seem to be meaning it more literally.

What is your view on how D.O. can be ended? This is another point where the two view on it seem to clash. For example Bhikkhu Buddhadasa states that by meaning mindful of feelings and not letting it turn to craving that D.O. can be stopped but I have read another view by Ajham Brahm that this is wrong as one can only break it via uprooting ignorance.

For me I see Bhikkhu Buddhadasa as correct as it is ignorant to let feelings go onto craving as craving is dukkha.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Dependent Origination

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:28 am

Greetings clw_uk,

The ending of craving and the ending of ignorance go hand in hand.

One cannot uproot all craving unless one has uprooted all ignorance.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Will
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Re: Dependent Origination

Postby Will » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:36 am

Bhikkhu Bodhi has an older translation and commentary here: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el277.html

His one volume version of the Samyutta Nikaya gives a newer translation, where he titles it as the Proximate Cause sutta - page 553 ff.
A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

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clw_uk
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Re: Dependent Origination

Postby clw_uk » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:38 am

That is how i percieved it but a have seen what appears to be a critique by ajham brahm that mindfulness of feeling to prevent craving can stop D.O. is false.

"Some Western Buddhists have proposed that the 'forward' order of Paticca-samuppada can be halted by 'cutting' the process between vedana and tanha. Often I have heard some suggest that rebirth can be avoided through using sati (mindfulness) on vedana to stop it generating tanha and the following factors of Paticca-samuppada. This is, in my understanding, misconceived on two grounds.
First, the 'forward' order of Paticca-samuppada was never intended to demonstrate how the process should be 'cut'. The 'forward' order is only meant to show how the process continues. The teaching on how the process is 'cut', or rather ceases, is the purpose reserved for the 'reverse' order of Paticca-samuppada or `Dependent Cessation'.
Secondly, even though vedana does not inevitably produce tanha, because it is not a sufficient condition, it is well stated by The Buddha that only when avijja ceases once and for all does vedana never generate tanha ! This means that one doesn't `cut' the process using sati on vedana. Sati is not enough. The process stops from the cessation of avijja, as Dependent Cessation makes abundantly clear. The cessation of avijja is much more than the practice of sati."

http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books ... NATION.htm

Unless im misreading him.
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Re: Dependent Origination

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:47 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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clw_uk
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Re: Dependent Origination

Postby clw_uk » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:50 am

I too enjoy his teachings, i think he has a great way of putting teachings accross, just in relation to his writting on D.O. im not 100% sure.

In relation to an earlier comment, about kamma if it can cover three lives. Doesnt it say that when one achieves arahantship that all previous kamma becomes null and void (this is off the top of my head)
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Ben
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Re: Dependent Origination

Postby Ben » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:55 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Re: Dependent Origination

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Re: Dependent Origination

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Re: Dependent Origination

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Re: Dependent Origination

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Re: Dependent Origination

Postby Jason » Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:23 am

"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" ().

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Re: Dependent Origination

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