I have a soft spot in my heart for I.B. Horner. She was very helpful to me in my early investigations of the Dhamma. That said, this translation is not as good as could be for any number of reasons.xabir wrote:Hello,
Someone is using this translation to claim that the Buddha is teaching an Atman doctrine. Can anyone please tell me if this is an accurate translation and what might Buddha actually mean here:
atta is the word is question here. It is not "the self," but "oneself" in this context. No need for a metaphysical thingie here.that you should seek for a woman or that you should seek for the self ?
I have yet to see a Pali sutta where the Buddha speaks favorably of the atta in a metaphysical sense, but your meaning here is less than clear.lyndon taylor wrote:Atta is the pali word for the Sanskrit word Atman, the Buddha in various places obviously refers positively in some cases to the atta, SInce atta is translated several different ways in English, the no self crowd has simply claimed any positive refering to atta=atman has a different meaning than self, me I disagree.
Well, if he meant a metaphysical, self-existent, unchanging, self-identical self thingie, that would be of keen interest, given what he has said elsewhere:xabir wrote:What could Buddha mean when he said not to seek for women but seek for oneself, anyway?
"There are these two extremes that are not to be indulged in by one who has gone forth. Which two? That which is devoted to sensual pleasure with reference to sensual objects: base, vulgar, common, ignoble, unprofitable; and that which is devoted to self-affliction: painful, ignoble, unprofitable. Avoiding both of these extremes, the middle way realized by the Tathagata — producing vision, producing knowledge — leads to calm, to direct knowledge, to self-awakening, to Unbinding.
Bhikkhus, these two extremes should not be followed by one who has gone forth into homelessness. What two? The pursuit of sensual happiness in sensual pleasures, which is low, vulgar, the way of worldlings, ignoble, unbeneficial; and the pursuit of self-mortification, which is painful, ignoble, unbeneficial. Without veering towards either of these extremes, the Tathagata has awakened to the middle way, which gives rise to vision, which gives rise to knowledge, which leads to peace, to direct knowledge, to enlightenment, to Nibbana.
Ete te bhikkhave ubho ante anupagamma,
Majjhima patipada tathagatena abhisambuddha,
Cakkhu-karanı ñana-karanı upasamaya abhiññaya
sambodhaya nibbanaya saavattati.
Avoiding both of these extremes, the middle way realized by the Tathagata—
producing vision, producing knowledge—leads to calm, to direct knowledge,
to self-awakening, to Unbinding.
mikenz66 wrote:So it seem that it is sambodhaya that is translated by Ven Thanissaro as "self-awakening", and by Ven Bodhi as "enlightenment".
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