Eradicating sex drive

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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Mindstar
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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Post by Mindstar »

tiltbillings wrote:Such as drinking alcohol or having sex.
You really like your sex do you? ;)

Higher than lordship over all earth,
Higher than sojourning in heavens supreme,
Higher than empire over all the worlds,
Is Fruit of Entrance to the Dhamma Stream.
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reflection
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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Post by reflection »

This may be interesting:
"Now this body that has material form consists of the four great elements, it is procreated by a mother and father, and built up out of boiled rice and bread, it has the nature of impermanence, of being worn and rubbed away, of dissolution and disintegration. It must be regarded —

as impermanent — as (liable to) suffering,
as a disease — as a cancer,
as a dart — as a calamity,
as an affliction — as alien,
as a falling to pieces — as void,
as without a self.
"When a man regards it thus, he abandons his desire for the body, affection for the body, and his habit of treating the body as a basis for his inferences."
"And what is gratification in the case of form (body)?

"Suppose there were a girl of warrior-noble cast or brahmin caste or householder stock, in her fifteenth or sixteenth year, neither too tall nor too short, neither too thin nor too fat, neither too dark nor too fair: is her beauty and loveliness then at its height?"

"Yes, venerable sir."

"Now the pleasure and joy that arise in dependence on that beauty and loveliness are the gratification in the case of form.

"And what is danger in the case of form?

"Later on one might see that same woman here at eighty, ninety or a hundred years, aged, as crooked as a roof, doubled up, tottering with the aid of sticks, frail, her youth gone, her teeth broken, grey haired, scanty-haired, bald, wrinkled, with limbs all blotchy: how do you conceive this, bhikkhus, has her former beauty and loveliness vanished and the danger become evident?"

"Yes, venerable sir."

"Bhikkhus, this is the danger in the case of form."
"Come, bhikkhus, abide contemplating ugliness in the body, perceiving repulsiveness in nutriment, perceiving disenchantment with all the world, contemplating impermanence in all formations."
One who contemplates the beautiful,
of agitating thoughts and active lust,
craving in this person constantly increases;
that one indeed makes strong his bonds.

But who delights in calming thoughts,
he develops foulness ever mindfully,
he indeed will make an end;
that one will sever Mara's bonds.
All from http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el271.html which has many more quotes from the suttas and some other sources.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Post by tiltbillings »

Mindstar wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Such as drinking alcohol or having sex.
You really like your sex do you?
I am not afraid of it, nor do I hold negative feelings towards it.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Sanjay PS
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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Post by Sanjay PS »

greenjuice wrote:I was an Orthodox Christian for some time and a pious one for only less then two years (before leaving Christianity) and in my, although maybe short, experience- it is quite possible. Orthodox Christianity has ascetic writings from second, third and fourth centuries CE that were very helpful. One of the most important things noted in them (interestingly, I later found similar things in Hindu writing) is the dependance of gluttony and lust. Some of those ascetics go as far as to say that one who is in control of his desire for food and drink will not be bothered at all by the sex urge, although I have not reached that in practice, it came close. The more I practiced restraint in eating, the easier it was to practice chastity. I ate no more then to satisfy hunger and only plain food, no snacks, sweets, spices, juices and similar stuff, mostly just whole grain bread, veggies either raw or boiled with only a little salt and on rare occasions fish, I drank only water, only when thirsty and during that time I had no problem in restraining myself from doing or desiring to do anything sexual. Even though I did follow some ascetic practices that to the modern eye would seem harsh, like showering with cold water and sleeping on the floor, I did not wear myself down, I didn't practice "self-torture", while living like that I went to my job and did it normally and I even worked-out. After leaving Christianity, I stopped with such practices, but after some time returned to some of them, being inspired by ancient Greek philosophers; I continue to practice a restrained diet (although I drink juices and eat fruits, and I avoid snacks and sweets for health, not ascetic reasons) and it still helps a lot with avoidance of sexuality, which I still practice.

Is there some mention of this in Buddhism, of the connection between the urges for food and sex?
Not sure about mention of food and its effect on our minds, in Buddhism

But yes , if we are aware , we can find that spicy foods does contribute in encouraging the fire element to grow within us , thereby effecting the body and the mind . Some food are aphrodisiacs and are best left alone , or eaten in moderation .Onions , garlic , all contribute in heightening sensuality , but i have found the best way in understanding sensuality is to be the guardians of our own minds , neither suppressing it nor expressing it , just acknowledging it the moment the feeling is born , this awareness allows the feelings to die its natural course , and any kind of unbridled conduct is kept in check , thereby keeping our minds healthy , wealthy and strong .

sanjay
The Path of Dhamma

The path of Dhamma is no picnic . It is a strenuous march steeply up the hill . If all the comrades desert you , Walk alone ! Walk alone ! with all the Thrill !!

U S.N. Goenka
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reflection
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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Post by reflection »

There is a tendency here that "eradicating sex drive" is a harsh formulation and may be the wrong way to go about it. Reading the OP also, I agree with that. But the Buddha also used quite strong words apparently:
"And which is even practice? There is the case where a monk doesn't acquiesce to an arisen thought of sensuality. He abandons it, destroys it, dispels it, knows it,[2] demolishes it, wipes it out of existence.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

However I think we should remember that removing sensual thoughts totally is a very advanced stage in the practice and certainly not the thing to aim for if we are not in the right place for it.
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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Post by tiltbillings »

reflection wrote:There is a tendency here that "eradicating sex drive" is a harsh formulation and may be the wrong way to go about it. Reading the OP also, I agree with that. But the Buddha also used quite strong words apparently:
"And which is even practice? There is the case where a monk doesn't acquiesce to an arisen thought of sensuality. He abandons it, destroys it, dispels it, knows it,[2] demolishes it, wipes it out of existence.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

However I think we should remember that removing sensual thoughts totally is a very advanced stage in the practice and certainly not the thing to aim for if we are not in the right place for it.
And we should remember that the above words are directed at celibate monks.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Sekha
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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Post by Sekha »

tiltbillings wrote:
"And which is even practice? There is the case where a monk doesn't acquiesce to an arisen thought of sensuality. He abandons it, destroys it, dispels it, knows it,[2] demolishes it, wipes it out of existence.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
And we should remember that the above words are directed at celibate monks.
If you mean to say those words are meant only for monks, I have to disagree. At AN 8.21 the householder Ugga explains that he undertook complete celibacy as his 5th precept. So, celibacy can also be a valuable and efficient practice for non-monastics. We should not try to convince ourselves otherwise.
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Re: Eradicating sex drive

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However I think we should remember that removing sensual thoughts totally is a very advanced stage in the practice and certainly not the thing to aim for if we are not in the right place for it.
Exactly so. I tried it 7 years ago, but didn't succeed. Only when I practised other things well (including those three I mentioned) I finally managed to handle it -) And what is more, at the moment this is no longer a harsh struggle (like before), but it goes smoothly for quite some time. So yes, I do know that substantial decreasing of sexual urges is possible by means of buddhist practice. But total eradication of this is a very different thing and, as I see it from texts, requires jhana and deep vipassana based on it.
Is there some mention of this in Buddhism, of the connection between the urges for food and sex?
Not much. But there is. For example:

"In the same manner, I say, O monks, should edible food be considered. If, O monks, the nutriment edible food is comprehended, the lust for the five sense-objects is (thereby) comprehended. And if lust for the five sense-objects is comprehended, there is no fetter enchained by which a noble disciple might come to this world again.

from here: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=12444 :reading:
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reflection
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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Post by reflection »

tiltbillings wrote:
reflection wrote:There is a tendency here that "eradicating sex drive" is a harsh formulation and may be the wrong way to go about it. Reading the OP also, I agree with that. But the Buddha also used quite strong words apparently:
"And which is even practice? There is the case where a monk doesn't acquiesce to an arisen thought of sensuality. He abandons it, destroys it, dispels it, knows it,[2] demolishes it, wipes it out of existence.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

However I think we should remember that removing sensual thoughts totally is a very advanced stage in the practice and certainly not the thing to aim for if we are not in the right place for it.
And we should remember that the above words are directed at celibate monks.
Technically that's true, but that doesn't mean that the practice of celibacy is only for monks/nuns. Most suttas are directed towards monks, but the practice is obviously also for lay people. Suttas like the anapanasati sutta, to quote: "There is the case where a monk.. Always mindful, he breathes in; mindful he breathes out.", but obviously the practice is also beneficial for lay people. It seems that it is simply the case that discourses were remembered by the monks and passed on and discourses to the lay people not as much. You will probably agree that being a lay person doesn't mean you should have sex or should have a desire for it. Or to be more exact: any sensual desire. Because those, like desire for food, are included in the sutta.

Some lay people wish to be more 'like monks/nuns', or have plans to ordain or for whatever other reason they may want to decrease their sensual desires. At a certain point in the practice I think it becomes a natural desire to want to decrease sensual craving, because one sees the drawback of it.

But as I previously said I think such discussions are not the point of the thread.
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reflection
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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Post by reflection »

greenjuice wrote: Is there some mention of this in Buddhism, of the connection between the urges for food and sex?
There is, but I don't know specifics in the suttas themselves. Other than that to totally remove sensual desire, all sensual desires (food/sex/music etc go together). I do however recall teachers pointing to practical aspects of the desires for food connecting with overall sense desire and thank you for bringing it up! :anjali:
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Re: Eradicating sex drive

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How can we eliminate something that is simply a human biological need?
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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Post by dxm_dxm »

How can we eliminate something that is simply a human biological need?
Same way you elliminate all the others biological, mental etc. needs: by having the right mindset and been able to abstain from it long enaught.

After a while (surprisingly short while) you will feel no desire for sexual activity anymore, the same way you do not feel a desire for heroin.
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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Post by dxm_dxm »

I am not afraid of it, nor do I hold negative feelings towards it.
If you have a partner and she is not a wanna-be renunciate too there is no urgent reason to stop sexual activity. If you quit this one out of a billion pleasures that bring us dopamine you will still have the others to quit, like the mind wandering in search of pleasant sensations and avoiding negative ones. It would be bad to cut off this pleasure from the list depriving another human been of it too. Only thing you can do is get advanced in meditation and cut off more from the attachment to sensual pleasures overall.

However you seem to be a bit too aggressive on this subject, almost encoureging it but a particular kind of agression. The one that springs from seen too many people using the fact that they've quited sex for narcissistic supply and been way more radical against it than you are pro (pro in a particular context). Quiting sex is a huge source of narcissistic supply and as you can read in "The broken Buddha" it is kinda the one and only justification of those bad monks for been superior. Only 1% of the people are narcissist but 100% of people have more or less narcissistic traits been something needed for survival.

Been a narcissist who have quited sexual activity and not been a meditation master yet I can confirm you that this is a very big and special source of narcissistic supply for the next reasons:

1. Althow very easy to quit compared to any other medium/high pleasures, probably the easiest, it makes you feel "special", a thing that every narcissist wants. It makes you feel special because the other people think it is so hard that they do not even think it is possible and you try to lie that to yourself too.

2. Narcissist are a lot more asexual than normal people from the begining. Narcissist despise sex because anybody can have it, not only the "special" ones. Even a mentally retarded can have sex. That is why sex is considered too mundane for a special person like the narcissist.

3. Narcissist are misogins and love to sexually frustrate woman by refusing sex. After I quited sexual activity I found how big this pleasure really is and try to avoid it. (I also have great tips) If I would not be a budhist and be the most convinced hedonist of all I would give up sex for this reason alone.

4. It makes the narcissist less dependent on the world, something that he want's a lot too.



So keep in mind that the overreactions from the people who have quited it may cause the same need to overreact in you. Why do you think that there are so many people that from all pleasures have quited sex on this forum if not because of the narcissistic traits in all of us?

PS: I have to add that quiting sexual activity has a lot of big practical advantages that few know of witch I am gona enumerate if anybody is interested. If I would be a convinced hedonist right now trying to get as much pleasure as posible in this life I would for sure quit sexual activity with other people and keep only masturbation on my list.
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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Post by robertk »

Actually I think that is rather insightful(the post on narcissism).
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Re: Eradicating sex drive

Post by Mkoll »

dxm_dxm wrote:PS: I have to add that quiting sexual activity has a lot of big practical advantages that few know of witch I am gona enumerate if anybody is interested.
Dear dxm_dxm,

I'd be interested in your views. Just for curiousity's sake, you know. :tongue:

:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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