I'd rather be reborn

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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kmath
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I'd rather be reborn

Postby kmath » Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:25 am

I'm starting to think I'd rather be born again. I mean, what's the point of not existing? The absence of dukkha? I'd rather live and suffer than not have ANY experience.

People say, Nibbana is not non-existence. I don't know how they can say that. If you are not born, you don't exist -- period. How could it be any more complicated than that?

People say there is no "you" existing now. And fine I accept there is no permanent "me-ness." But I'm here. I mean, I exist in a conventional sense.

People say: you have had so many lives -- you don't just want to carry on forever. But look, I can't remember any of those lives, so to me, this is the first one.

Anyway I know this topic has been debated ad infinitum. But I think it's important, so if you have any comments, please post below.

Thanks,

kmath :jedi:

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Weakfocus
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Re: I'd rather be reborn

Postby Weakfocus » Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:09 am


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SDC
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Re: I'd rather be reborn

Postby SDC » Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:59 am


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kmath
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Re: I'd rather be reborn

Postby kmath » Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:30 am


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Ben
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Re: I'd rather be reborn

Postby Ben » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:41 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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kmath
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Re: I'd rather be reborn

Postby kmath » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:48 am


pegembara
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Re: I'd rather be reborn

Postby pegembara » Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:37 am

And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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Dan74
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Re: I'd rather be reborn

Postby Dan74 » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:06 am

This is a tough one, but I'd venture to say that we were never born to start with. It's ignorance and delusion that was born and this is what will cease.
_/|\_

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seeker242
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Re: I'd rather be reborn

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SDC
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Re: I'd rather be reborn

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Spiny Norman
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Re: I'd rather be reborn

Postby Spiny Norman » Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:13 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Re: I'd rather be reborn

Postby santa100 » Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:09 pm


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Re: I'd rather be reborn

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Re: I'd rather be reborn

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Re: I'd rather be reborn

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marek
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Re: I'd rather be reborn

Postby marek » Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:00 pm

You enjoy life. Most people do. As I understand Buddha, if you follow the precepts and practice merit, you can expect rebirth in a good destination.

To strive for nibbana, I think the person has to be fed up with life at least to some extent.

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David N. Snyder
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Re: I'd rather be reborn

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:59 pm

Why not be a Mahayanist? You can take a bodhisattva vow and continually come back to help others. In the meantime you can enjoy life as you say you do. And then when you get enlightened, you can return here . . . when you have had enough of "been there, done that" :tongue:
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Shaswata_Panja
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Re: I'd rather be reborn

Postby Shaswata_Panja » Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:37 pm

You go into Nibbana every night and you donot get afraid then--in fact you enjoy it the most--then why will you be afraid when the real deal comes?


Deep dream less sleep is like Nibbana..there is neither existence, neither non-existence, no beginning, no end, no universe, no sunyata(zeroness or emptiness),
no time, no eternity, no arising, no ceasing, no perception, no non-perception, no self, no non-self------The experience of deep dreamless sleep is the experience of Nibbana



after countless rebirth and death of various mindstates everyday(like various lives) we naturally go into seclusion, become a recluse and go to deep dreamless sleep(Nibbana)......In fact after a hard day (more than fair share of mindstate rebirths) it is the most awaited thing...It is unconditioned Supreme Bliss


Our 24 hour day cycle have always provided a clue for the cycle of existence....and Just as You Yourself cannot point out when you started doing these 24 hour cycles of existence inspite remembering past several thousand days of your life (you always need your mum and dad to tell you how it started) exactly same way
Buddha could not pinpoint the beginning inspite rememebering innumerable past lives---Can you really remember the first day when you woke up and did your thing and went to sleep? No? exactly thats how Buddha could not somehow see the first life where it all started...See you are already a mini-buddha


This is why Buddhists call samsara has no head or tail

while Hindus call it "I have seen the beginning, and it can't be seen"

hope this gives you a bit of handle on things

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manas
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Re: I'd rather be reborn

Postby manas » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:20 pm

Hi kmath.

If I believed that nibbana was annihilation or nothingness, I would quit Buddhism right now. But luckily, that's not what it's about, if the suttas are to be believed. Or more precisely, it ought not to be conceived of in that way.

I too still have the desire to enjoy, to become and for ' being-ness', but I must also admit, I'm curious as to what the total cessation of craving must be like, to experience. The Buddha claims that it's pretty darn good.

Metta :anjali:
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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Re: I'd rather be reborn

Postby SarathW » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:49 pm

Hi Shaswata
Deep dreamless sleep is not Nibbana according to Buddha’s teaching.
According to Abhidhamma it is called Bhawanga Citta.

Buddha is not against happiness.
Nirvana is the highest happiness and you can reach their in stages. Each stage is more subtle and happier.


Please listen to the following video: four kind of happiness

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zAQU8MEHnM
:)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”


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