What is Doubt towards internal/external phenomina.

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What is Doubt towards internal/external phenomina.

Postby SarathW » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:53 am

"Doubt towards internal/external phenomina is a hindarnace"

Page 65:

http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/printguna.pdf

===========
Can someone elaborate/explain this with bit more details please?
:thinking:
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Re: What is Doubt towards internal/external phenomina.

Postby Sanjay PS » Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:47 am

Hi Sarath ,

To the best of my understanding and experience , doubt is nothing but a very natural mental ingredient, that arises within us from time to time depending on the sensations that is coursing within the body and over the body at any given point of time . The severity of doubting also greatly depends upon the intensity of sensations that we feel . Internally one may doubt about oneself , the ability , not having enough merits, probably having offended an elder or noble person in some life time or the other , which are just excuses ,giving strength to Mara ( personification of our weaknesses ) . Externally , we may tend to doubt , the teacher , the teaching . All this boils down to nothing but the sensations that courses within us any given moment in time . i am sorry , i am repeating this, and you may well know better than me , but sensations and their nature of change are most vital and pivotal in the discovery of all the Buddhas ( neuro-chemical secretions , also known as asvaas ) .

If we read the Mahasatipathan Sutta , it becomes all the more clearer how important this is . One may also feel at times , that doubt may be present within the mind , but it does not trouble , going on to show that the mind experiences doubt without attachment. At times doubt may be present , troubling us badly , showing that the mind experiences doubt with attachment . This holds true for all the mental hindrances also . Similarly for pleasant sensations . In any given day the mind courses like a river , attached and detached to the many pleasant , unpleasant and neutral sensations , with or without detachment , giving rise to a new " me " every moment .This phenomenon one clearly sees for oneself and in all other people , irrespective of nationality , status , caste or creed . Unshakeable faith and reverence to the Buddhas , the Dhamma and the Sangha , thus gets born and established , and one walks on regardless with all the thrill :smile:

sanjay
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Re: What is Doubt towards internal/external phenomina.

Postby santa100 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:59 pm

Ven. Bodhi noted:
...Doubt about the internal, according to Spk, is uncertainty regarding one’s own five aggregates (whether they are truly impermanent, etc.); doubt about the external is the “great doubt” (mahāvicikicchā) about eight matters (the Buddha, the Dhamma, the Saṅgha, and the training; the past, present, and future; and dependent origination)
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Re: What is Doubt towards internal/external phenomina.

Postby fivebells » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:41 pm

It would be great to find some other translations of that sutta to compare to (SN 5.110, according to the footnote.)
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Re: What is Doubt towards internal/external phenomina.

Postby santa100 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:28 pm

Actually it's SN 46.52. So far we have Ven. Gunaratana's version in the OP:
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/printguna.pdf - page 64/65.

and the Pali and Ven. Bodhi's English version on suttacentral.net:
http://suttacentral.net/sn46.52/pi/
http://suttacentral.net/sn46.52/en/
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Re: What is Doubt towards internal/external phenomina.

Postby SarathW » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:58 am

Thanks all. :)

Why this internal and external thing is so important?
Why wanderers knowledge is inferior to Buddha?
I think anyone knows that things first manifest internally and then externally.
Say I am angry with someone today and I may strike him tomorrow.
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Re: What is Doubt towards internal/external phenomina.

Postby fivebells » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:53 am

Thanks, santa100. Is SN 46.52 the coordinate in the new enumeration of the canon and SN. 5:110 the old version, or did I just completely misunderstand the citation on page 66?
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Re: What is Doubt towards internal/external phenomina.

Postby santa100 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:10 am

Hi fivebells, SN 46.52 belongs to Part Five of the Samyutta Nikaya (the last part), which is the Maha-Vagga or The Great Section, thus the number 5 that you see. A a brief description on each part here: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/index.html
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Re: What is Doubt towards internal/external phenomina.

Postby Spiny Norman » Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:10 am

santa100 wrote:Ven. Bodhi noted:
...Doubt about the internal, according to Spk, is uncertainty regarding one’s own five aggregates (whether they are truly impermanent, etc.); doubt about the external is the “great doubt” (mahāvicikicchā) about eight matters (the Buddha, the Dhamma, the Saṅgha, and the training; the past, present, and future; and dependent origination)


Interesting. I remember that in the Satipatthana Sutta there is a distinction between internal and external which seems to mean self v. other.
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Re: What is Doubt towards internal/external phenomina.

Postby chownah » Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:56 am

Spiny Norman wrote:
santa100 wrote:Ven. Bodhi noted:
...Doubt about the internal, according to Spk, is uncertainty regarding one’s own five aggregates (whether they are truly impermanent, etc.); doubt about the external is the “great doubt” (mahāvicikicchā) about eight matters (the Buddha, the Dhamma, the Saṅgha, and the training; the past, present, and future; and dependent origination)


Interesting. I remember that in the Satipatthana Sutta there is a distinction between internal and external which seems to mean self v. other.

Yes, that is one interpretation.
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