Population Control

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
ricebowl
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Population Control

Post by ricebowl »

Dear Sangha,

I am trying to address a variety of problems that came hand-in-hand with my Buddhist practice, and ironically the third Buddhist precept has given me tonnes of challenges over the past years. When I was a student I had schoolmates that nicknamed me "Erector" synonymous with a big p3nis, it was very upsetting and abusive, yet between kids it was just a name that I grew up with. School-time abuse within the classroom knows little beginning and knows no end imho. Anyways, lately I'm troubled because there is one major problem and the solution is very simple, and the obstacles are so humorous, it comes to a juncture when I keep refraining from blaming, yet Buddhism is the major cause of the problem.

You see in Theravada Buddhism for instance, living simply is important, celibacy too is, veganism too is, and when I dislike any aspect of Theravada I can adjourn next door where the Mahayana is, then again that ain't the problem. The problem is, "HOW ON EARTH AM I SUPPOSED TO GET INTIMATE, WHEN I NEED TO, WITH SO MANY Buddhist and even grandmothers' and mothers' precepts to be adhered?

So this year my mother told me to refrain from attending weddings, or wakes, or birthday bashes. Then her sister i.e. an aunt enforced another rule saying to refrain from bringing a(ny) girl(s) home. And the family forbids me from working, and much lesser from travelling overseas. They keep telling me to find a job, yet when my economy is that globalised, and they create so many obstacles that prevent me from even working within the heartlands, how am I supposed to find work beyond my Small Office Home Office? The humour is of course, the absence of any solid concrete business lead or romantic partner. I agree. Yet what happens here is that you know these are Chinese that I am living with. You might recall how in the ancient China palaces they get ladies to bind their feet until it is so small, they can barely walk. That keeps their dynasty regime in force. Same thing here in Singapore where I'm living in. Without complaints, it's just so terrible, that in order for a bunch of old people to die at a rate of 2 per decade within the extended family, people are taught not to have sex. People are taught not to have money. People like me, a graduate, am told to skip work, and wait for my father to die.

So the irony is even political. My founding father of the country is 90,he complains about low birth rates, so low that the city state country is one of the lowest in the entire world, comparable with Japan.

On one side it says on a spiritual track "Refrain from sexual misconduct". On the other side, on a sociological track the society including the law of the time says "Please make babies".

Within the household, my old fogies say "Refrain from bringing girls home", "Refrain from working overseas", and the neighbourhood is only 716.1 km2 with a population density of 7,540/km2. I'm feeling very cramped out!

Within the economic side, my country says in 2012 our National Debt is as 100+% of GDP.

I need a place to have sex and a place to work and I don't even have a cubicle I don't even have a bed. I am so stressed out, the only feasible solution is reducing the population density and being lenient on the precepts -- I know when the time comes when people need to leave, people have to leave -- the problem is that procreation i.e. reproduction, and carnality i.e. intimacy are two simple things that should I need a Buddha to teach me how to make babies and have intimacy, then I am suggesting that the religion, the sangha including the entire forum should be the first to be scraped.

I ain't starting a schism, I am just telling the community that I face low birth rates in my society. And when a society brings in religion, politics, education, commerce, and all sorts of funny jokes under the sun to try to address a simple problem that billions of years ago the cavemen had sex without having to worship and extoll the virtues and dhamma of a well-endowed Buddha Tathgatha, all they had were Tyrannosaurus Rexes billions of years ago, and they made babies over billions of years till AD 2013 and I hope we can still carry on this baby making business.

WHAT ON EARTH DID THE BUDDHA SAY ABOUT Tyrannosaurus Rexes and low birth rates in AD 2013 here in Singapore???
dagon
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Re: Population Control

Post by dagon »

Singapore is a country of surprising contrasts – built on Chinese business innovations yet at the same time one of the most stifling cultures on earth.

If I understand you post correctly it could be rephrased how do I get a life within constrains imposed by national, cultural and religious doctrines and dogmas. The items that you appear to be identifying in this are an ability to have relationships, personal space, employment opportunities; all of which are interrelated.

The Dhamma teaches that the debt that you owe your parents is so great …. The family extends this to blind obedience and this is further reinforced by the order obsessive early governments of the country. Then lets add to the confusion with a catholic education superimposing concepts of guilt and sin that do not necessary conform with what the Dhamma teaches us. Sorry if that sound a bit brutal.

What can add to the confusion is that what you describe is essentially a householders life which I think what the Buddha expected most to do. Here on DW there is often a confused conversation that floats between the two pathways in the Dhamma.

What may be a good starting point for you is to read A Simple Guide to Life By Robert Bogoda
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el397.html

metta
paul
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fivebells
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Re: Population Control

Post by fivebells »

Is that you James? You're getting more sophisticated!
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DNS
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Re: Population Control

Post by DNS »

ricebowl wrote: You see in Theravada Buddhism for instance, living simply is important, celibacy too is, veganism too is, and when I dislike any aspect of Theravada I can adjourn next door where the Mahayana is, then again that ain't the problem. The problem is, "HOW ON EARTH AM I SUPPOSED TO GET INTIMATE, WHEN I NEED TO, WITH SO MANY Buddhist and even grandmothers' and mothers' precepts to be adhered?
Theravada does not demand celibacy or veganism. Celibacy is only for monks and nuns. You appear to be placing too high a standard that Theravada does not require.

If you are living at home and you are referring to your mother's wishes, that is another matter, nothing to do with Theravada. Why not find your own place and look for a suitable partner?
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kmath
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Re: Population Control

Post by kmath »

ricebowl wrote: On one side it says on a spiritual track "Refrain from sexual misconduct". On the other side, on a sociological track the society including the law of the time says "Please make babies".
Making babies is not sexual misconduct.
Babadhari
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Re: Population Control

Post by Babadhari »

'Making babies is not sexual misconduct.'

it sure is if you don't stick around to raise them :tongue:
Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion.
Aflame, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs ......

Seeing thus, the disciple of the Noble One grows disenchanted. SN 35.28
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Mkoll
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Re: Population Control

Post by Mkoll »

David N. Snyder wrote:
ricebowl wrote: You see in Theravada Buddhism for instance, living simply is important, celibacy too is, veganism too is, and when I dislike any aspect of Theravada I can adjourn next door where the Mahayana is, then again that ain't the problem. The problem is, "HOW ON EARTH AM I SUPPOSED TO GET INTIMATE, WHEN I NEED TO, WITH SO MANY Buddhist and even grandmothers' and mothers' precepts to be adhered?
Theravada does not demand celibacy or veganism. Celibacy is only for monks and nuns. You appear to be placing too high a standard that Theravada does not require.

If you are living at home and you are referring to your mother's wishes, that is another matter, nothing to do with Theravada. Why not find your own place and look for a suitable partner?
:goodpost:

~~~

Dear ricebowl,

When you read the Buddha's teachings or commentaries of them, historical or contemporary, be very careful to discern who the target audience is and whether you're a part of it. The Buddha's basic teaching for laypeople is actually quite barebones and and easy to understand. The Buddha taught this because he knew it would lead to the well-being of those who followed it and the well-being of the world; it is enough for a layperson to follow these basic teachings or the Buddha wouldn't have taught and recommended them.

When the Dhamma becomes complicated, then you can be sure that the Buddha was addressing monastics and serious practitioners. Furthermore, the Buddha tailored his speech based on the spiritual "degree" (for lack of a better word) of his audience. So even if one is an advanced practitioner, there are still teachings that will remain at least partly esoteric and can't be most effectively applied to one's practice, yet.

You needn't put yourself in these other groups until you feel ready to do so. Doing so before you're ready is like trying to run before you've learned to walk.

Metta.

:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
ricebowl
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:26 pm

Re: Population Control

Post by ricebowl »

dagon wrote:Singapore is a country of surprising contrasts – built on Chinese business innovations yet at the same time one of the most stifling cultures on earth.

If I understand you post correctly it could be rephrased how do I get a life within constrains imposed by national, cultural and religious doctrines and dogmas. The items that you appear to be identifying in this are an ability to have relationships, personal space, employment opportunities; all of which are interrelated.

The Dhamma teaches that the debt that you owe your parents is so great …. The family extends this to blind obedience and this is further reinforced by the order obsessive early governments of the country. Then lets add to the confusion with a catholic education superimposing concepts of guilt and sin that do not necessary conform with what the Dhamma teaches us. Sorry if that sound a bit brutal.

What can add to the confusion is that what you describe is essentially a householders life which I think what the Buddha expected most to do. Here on DW there is often a confused conversation that floats between the two pathways in the Dhamma.

What may be a good starting point for you is to read A Simple Guide to Life By Robert Bogoda
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el397.html

metta
paul
Thanks paul, put in this manner the theravada buddhist teachings is relevant and effective beyond reasonable doubt in as far as my personal experience is concerned.

On a cultural context yes you pointed out the dhamma that I personally reckon as totaly hitting the nail on the spot. China/Chinese is a facet of this planet that gives me a degree of challenges.

Lord Shakyamuni Buddha was from North India if we all recall correctly. So on the context of how a Chinese actually became interested in Buddhism, I went to school over years with English as its primary medium of instruction. When I first started with Buddhism, most of my materials that got me active were in English. I meditate in English when I do vipassana, nuff said.

:heart: So recently with the Asian internet and economic boom, I ended up with India vs China all the time where I am in cosmopolitan Singapore.
ricebowl
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:26 pm

Re: Population Control

Post by ricebowl »

fivebells wrote:Is that you James? You're getting more sophisticated!
I knew a James Ball from another Buddhist forum, and I recall a James in this forum too
ricebowl
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Re: Population Control

Post by ricebowl »

David N. Snyder wrote:Theravada does not demand celibacy or veganism. Celibacy is only for monks and nuns. You appear to be placing too high a standard that Theravada does not require.

If you are living at home and you are referring to your mother's wishes, that is another matter, nothing to do with Theravada. Why not find your own place and look for a suitable partner?
Hi David, my family elders withheld my passport, and Singapore as a country is only this big, if I'm in New York I reckoned Washington is just a rail ride away; if I'm in Beijing again Shanghai is just a few hours ride away; if I'm in Berlin while I have yet visited Germany I recall Warsaw is accessible as a European. When I'm a Singaporean and my passport is being kept my elders, finding my own place and searching for a suitable partner is again prohibited by the law -- as a single citizen without marriage the national housing authorities prohibit life beyond one's parents until I reach 35, as a civilian seeking a matrimonial alliance and requesting an apartment, the waiting list is long enough to suggest that a baby born following legal marriage is the only legitimate excuse why a couple can be given preferential treatment -- there is only one known political opinion here in singapore and he is 90 years old
ricebowl
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:26 pm

Re: Population Control

Post by ricebowl »

kmath wrote:
ricebowl wrote: On one side it says on a spiritual track "Refrain from sexual misconduct". On the other side, on a sociological track the society including the law of the time says "Please make babies".
Making babies is not sexual misconduct.
:hug:
ricebowl
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:26 pm

Re: Population Control

Post by ricebowl »

kitztack wrote:'Making babies is not sexual misconduct.'

it sure is if you don't stick around to raise them :tongue:
Well there is anicca
ricebowl
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:26 pm

Re: Population Control

Post by ricebowl »

Mkoll wrote: :goodpost:

~~~

Dear ricebowl,

When you read the Buddha's teachings or commentaries of them, historical or contemporary, be very careful to discern who the target audience is and whether you're a part of it. The Buddha's basic teaching for laypeople is actually quite barebones and and easy to understand. The Buddha taught this because he knew it would lead to the well-being of those who followed it and the well-being of the world; it is enough for a layperson to follow these basic teachings or the Buddha wouldn't have taught and recommended them.

When the Dhamma becomes complicated, then you can be sure that the Buddha was addressing monastics and serious practitioners. Furthermore, the Buddha tailored his speech based on the spiritual "degree" (for lack of a better word) of his audience. So even if one is an advanced practitioner, there are still teachings that will remain at least partly esoteric and can't be most effectively applied to one's practice, yet.

You needn't put yourself in these other groups until you feel ready to do so. Doing so before you're ready is like trying to run before you've learned to walk.

Metta.

:anjali:
This is exactly what I missed out until you pointed it out, indeed my bad, when reading accesstoinsight or various theravadin suttas there is a tendency when I put myself in Venerable Ananda's stance whether knowingly or unknowingly. (The thing about studying the suttas is trying to understand what Ananda understood before understanding what I am supposed to understand)
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Mkoll
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Re: Population Control

Post by Mkoll »

ricebowl wrote:This is exactly what I missed out until you pointed it out, indeed my bad, when reading accesstoinsight or various theravadin suttas there is a tendency when I put myself in Venerable Ananda's stance whether knowingly or unknowingly. (The thing about studying the suttas is trying to understand what Ananda understood before understanding what I am supposed to understand)
Thank you for pointing this out. I've never given Ven. Ananda's understanding much thought, but I will in the future.

:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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Pondera
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Re: Population Control

Post by Pondera »

You're more than welcome in Canada. Plenty of space. Lots of womens. Lots of coffee shops for people with degrees to advance into managerial positions...
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
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