What Is Nibbana

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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greenjuice
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Re: What Is Nibbana

Post by greenjuice »

Zom wrote:This is because "experiencing" happiness (or whatever) is suffering, actually.
Actually, this is a contradiction. If one is experiencing happiness, one is by definition not suffering.
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Mkoll
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Re: What Is Nibbana

Post by Mkoll »

greenjuice wrote:
Zom wrote:This is because "experiencing" happiness (or whatever) is suffering, actually.
Actually, this is a contradiction. If one is experiencing happiness, one is by definition not suffering.
Right at that moment. But because its impermanent, suffering is just around the corner.

Take a step back and look at life objectively and you see that happiness is inextricably tied to suffering.

The Dhamma is the raft to go beyond suffering.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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greenjuice
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Re: What Is Nibbana

Post by greenjuice »

Right at that moment. But because its impermanent, suffering is just around the corner.
My question was about the happiness of nibbana.
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Mkoll
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Re: What Is Nibbana

Post by Mkoll »

greenjuice wrote:
Right at that moment. But because its impermanent, suffering is just around the corner.
My question was about the happiness of nibbana.
"Nibbana is to be experienced by the wise." There's no answer to your question, especially coming from non-arahants. And even if an arahant were to answer that question, the answer would be in words which you or I would interpret based on our delusional provclivities.

Which is why its best not to give attention to these questions.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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Jon. S
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Re: What Is Nibbana

Post by Jon. S »

Mkoll wrote:
greenjuice wrote:
Right at that moment. But because its impermanent, suffering is just around the corner.
My question was about the happiness of nibbana.
"Nibbana is to be experienced by the wise." There's no answer to your question, especially coming from non-arahants. And even if an arahant were to answer that question, the answer would be in words which you or I would interpret based on our delusional provclivities.

Which is why its best not to give attention to these questions.
I'm not sure where I read it (possibly something by Ajahn Geoff), but I read something that said that the word "happiness" is the closest word one can use to describe nibbana, but actually it is nothing like happiness. Because humans so often seek happiness, it seems to be the one thing humans desire, that is the word that is used but in fact nibbana transcends happiness. It does not imply an arahant would always be laughing and giggling in the same way a child who is at Disneyland or someone who has just gotten a promotion would, but rather, it is a happiness that goes far beyond conventional understanding of happiness.

And also, it is unconditioned - unlike our usual conditioned happiness we experience.
I was born naked.
My beloved parents
kindly gave me a name.
When I reached twenty
I thought "a name is a chain,
I want to abandon it".
Whoever I questioned
No one answers me.
When I hear the wind in the pines
I get an answer.
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suriyopama
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Re: What Is Nibbana

Post by suriyopama »

Modus.Ponens wrote: I don't know why people jump to the conclusion that it is not nibbana. Not trying to start an argument; just saying that it's possible that it is a glimpse of nibbana.
Yes, why not?. Buddhadasa calls it "Periodic Nibbanas" and says that they sustain our lifes, even for animals.
Nibbana is the coolness resulting from the quenching of defilements, whether they quench on their own or someone quenches them through Dhamma practice. Whenever the defilements are quenched, then there is the thing called "Nibbana," always with the same meaning — coolness.

Any reactive emotion that arises ceases when its causes and conditions are finished. Although it may be a temporary quenching, merely a temporary coolness, it still means Nibbana, even if only temporarily. Thus, there's a temporary Nibbana for those who still can't avoid some defilements. This indeed is the temporary Nibbana that sustains the lives of beings who are still hanging onto defilement. Anyone can see that if the egoistic emotions exist night and day without any pause or rest, no life could endure it. If it didn't die, it would go crazy and then die in the end. You ought to consider carefully the fact that life can survive only because there are periods when the defilements don't roast it, which, in fact, outnumber the times when the defilements blaze.
These periodic Nibbanas sustain life for all of us, without excepting even animals, which have their levels of Nibbana, too. We are able to survive because this kind of Nibbana nurtures us, until it becomes the most ordinary habit of life and of the mind. Whenever there is freedom from defilement, then there is the value and meaning of Nibbana. This must occur fairly often for living things to survive. That we have some time to relax both bodily and mentally provides us with the freshness and vitality needed to live.

Why don't we understand and feel thankful for this kind of Nibbana at least a little bit? We're lucky that the instincts can manage by themselves. Conscious beings naturally search for periods that are free from craving, thirst, and egoism. We might call this natural urge "the Nibbana instinct." If there is unremitting thirst, life must die. Thus, infants know how to suck the breast and mosquitoes know how to buzz around sucking blood to sustain their lives until they are slapped to death. Our instincts have this virtue built in: they search for periods of time sufficiently free from defilement or free from thirst to maintain life. Whenever there is freedom and voidness there is always this little Nibbana, until we know how to make it into the lasting or perfect Nibbana of the Arahant. It isn't death, but rather is deathlessness, in particular, spiritual deathlessness. If anyone sees this fact, they'll personally experience that we can survive only through this kind of Nibbana. We don't survive just because of that rice and food that so infatuate people. We realize that everybody must have this thing called "Nibbana" and must depend on it as their lives' sustenance. So who can object to us talking about "Nibbana for everyone"?
This is one of my favourite talks describing Nibbana:
Nibbana for Everyone - by Buddhadasa Bhikkhu
http://www.suanmokkh.org/archive/arts/m ... bbevry.htm
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