What a great thread !

[PeterB]

I just wantedto say what a great thread the " Tolerance of Other Religions " thread turned out to be. I am not sure its kosher to comment on a locked thread, if not mods, please remove this. But what started out looking like the same old circle dance , suddenly sprang to life and became genuinely interesting and imo very useful..Sadhu !

[Ben]

Hi Peter

We closed the thread because we felt that no further benefit could be drawn from the discussion and there was a bit of a resolution-less circular argument developing.
However, I am glad that you have found the thread interesting and of value.
Your feedback is appreciated.
Kind regards

Ben

[genkaku]

Ben -- Without disrespect, can you point me to a thread that has an actual -- as opposed to imagined -- resolution?

[Jechbi]

Ben -- Without disrespect, can you point me to a thread that has an actual -- as opposed to imagined -- resolution?

Not to step on Ben's toes, but that's an easy one. Here.

Greetings Fede,

Resolutions - an interesting question!

I think I've only ever made a resolution once. I was about 16 or so, and I resolved to be less selfish. I guess even then I saw the harm in it. Generally if there's something I want to do, I'll do it... I don't need a 'new year' to influence the decision.

One thing to be mindful of though Fede, is that sometimes people (particularly those who are trying to give up smoking etc.) find that the resolution puts a lot of pressure on them and it becomes a case of all or nothing. In terms of getting away from addiction, or any other significant pursuit, there's likely to be stumbles and challenges along the way. These need to be faced head-on, but are difficult enough to achieve on their own without loading any additional pressure onto the situation. If you or your partner stumble in terms of your resolutions, I hope your mutual support comes to the fore.

Metta,
Retro.

Or maybe I just imagined it ...

[chicka-Dee]

I'm thinking about getting a job stirring up hornet's nests. I seem to be rather good at it, don't you think? And maybe I can earn some extra $ doing it, at the same time...

[christopher:::]

LOL... i agree with Peter, i thought that was a very good thread. And also that it was locked and closed just in the nick of time...!

[tiltbillings]

I just wantedto say what a great thread the " Tolerance of Other Religions " thread turned out to be. I am not sure its kosher to comment on a locked thread, if not mods, please remove this. But what started out looking like the same old circle dance , suddenly sprang to life and became genuinely interesting and imo very useful..Sadhu !

How was it good, useful?

[PeterB]

Because it was about to go down the same old circular route that this kind of thread has been down before, particularly on another welll known forum, and is frankly not interesting, ( Sorry Chris::: ) because its been done to death, and also in my view profoundly and unintentionally DISrespects Buddhism AND all of the other religions by ignoring what is distinctive about them, when Chris ( mod) and yourself intervened and told it like it is. Reducing all religions and all schools of Buddhism to a beige mush of good intentions is not tolerance. Its actually INtolerance, an inability to cope with any perceived or projected dissonance.

[chicka-Dee]

I don't wish to start another go-round, I'm just genuinely trying to reconcile this within my own mind (and perhaps this is my 'mistake' to try and do so)...

Maybe it's because I've sampled from different areas, and haven't gone deeply enough into one area alone, I don't know... but I can't help but see the common threads that weave their way through many different religions and spiritual ideas. I don't see how it is disrespectful to see this and point this out...

Perhaps my question is naive. But hey, I'm here to learn.

[PeterB]

I dont think anyone is so much as hinting that it is disrespectful to point to similarities between religions. Just so, it is not disrespectful to point out that there are differences, and that some of those differences are of a particlarly fundamental kind. It is good to look for commonalities. It is also good to be aware of our ( I am assuming that most people who post on a Buddhist forum are not dogmatic fundies ) need to airbrush out the gaps. Lets look at a real life example. Thomas Merton is often cited as an example of one who bridges the gap between Christianity and Buddhism. But a closer look at this reveals that at the time of his untimely death he had pretty much settled on becoming a student of a teacher called Chatral Rinpoche . He knew and wrote in his journals , that it would be the end of his being a Trappist Monk ( this was in the 60's remember ) that he would be expelled, and probably excommunicated, as indeed Matthew Fox was 20 years later. His correspondence at that point with the Theologian Rosemary Reuther makes it plain that he had defacto " left " Christianity some time before he boarded the plane to Asia and to his death. Now he has become an icon to those who see that a kind of hybrid Christianity/Buddhism is possible. Photos of him with the Dalai Lama and with Trungpa Rinpoche abound. In reality though had he lived he would now be a long established Student of Tibetan Buddhism. Or maybe he would have gone back to the church. In any case what undid his Christianity was his discovery of Dependent Origination and the radical undermining by that doctrine of all belief systems.

[chicka-Dee]

This reminds me of Mother Theresa, who also had some doubts about the strict dogma of Christianity (I have read). It seems to me (and I expect there is someone just waiting to lamb-baste me for my ideas) that there are fundamental truths that permeate everywhere, though are at the same time paradoxical. Hovering over everything is this One Truth. All attempts at explaining this Truth are thus far incomplete, and we have fragments lying everywhere. We battle over these fragments. Not realizing that each fragment, that we personally hold complete, is but one piece of the whole.

That's my little over-simplified and preliminary attempt at describing what intuitively comes forth for me. I'm sticking my neck out to be chopped off, I'm not sure why, it just seems important. I have this desire for minds to remain open.

[PeterB]

The idea that there is One Truth chopped up and spread about a bit is inspiring to you, chicka-dee. I find no use for it . And I think you will find that it is the kind of speculative ( because it cant be proven or disproven and is not mentioned in the Canon) idea that The Buddha said was not condusive to Enlightenment. It might be comforting to you, but I suspect not as comforting as it would be to dive into the Buddha's teaching and to know what he knew. The thing is we can hold as many views as we want, but we can only actually practice the skillful means of one religion.


edited in the interests of diplomacy and Right Speech.

[chicka-Dee]

So far I see nothing in the Buddha's teachings that contradict my vision. On the contrary. I see his teachings as pointing to the One Truth. Many other teachings also point there. The 'trouble' lies in paradox, which is very difficult for us to comprehend. I am very drawn to the Dharma, perhaps because these teachings are the most complete of all the ones we have available, in pointing the way.

Perhaps my vision is completely naive. I hold wide open this possibility. But I can't ignore a strong guiding intuition that calls forth a need to keep going on this path I've found myself on. That is my journey. Yours is yours and I respect it fully (I hope). I only ask that we all keep an open mind, that is all.

[PeterB]

I respect your right to hold your views chicka-Dee.

[Ngawang Drolma.]

I am perfectly comfortable with my understanding and belief that Buddhism is unique and different from all other religions. What separates Buddhism from other systems is anatta. And there's no way around this. But I so sincerely believe in what the Buddha taught that it doesn't bother me a bit that so many people would find my beliefs heretical.

Personally, for me, One Truth to be found in all religions and faiths doesn't work. It's illogical to me.
Just my personal two cents, but I'm not commenting on what anyone else has shared.

Kindly,
Drolma

[chicka-Dee]

I respect your right to hold your views chicka-Dee.

However misguided they might be?

I suppose the real culprit is in holding a view, at all...

I think we should just forget the whole darn thing and all go for beer

[PeterB]

Pretty much my view Drolma. Anatta and Dependant Origination are I think what sets the Buddhadharma apart.

[PeterB]

I respect your right to hold your views chicka-Dee.

However misguided they might be?

I suppose the real culprit is in holding a view, at all...

I think we should just forget the whole darn thing and all go for beer

I repeat, I respect your right to hold your view Chicka-Dee. Although I get the impression that this might not be enough for you. Its almost as though you are demanding parity between your view and the view of the Buddha.

[chicka-Dee]

I respect your right to hold your views chicka-Dee.

However misguided they might be?

I suppose the real culprit is in holding a view, at all...

I think we should just forget the whole darn thing and all go for beer

I repeat, I respect your right to hold your view Chicka-Dee. Although I get the impression that this might not be enough for you. Its almost as though you are demanding parity between your view and the view of the Buddha.

Sincerely, I was poking fun at myself (above). I'm just trying to figure this all out as best I know how, just like all of us.

[PeterB]

Well actually i think you will find that the Buddha has pretty much done that for us. Our job is to now actualise it. So we start by researching what he said and trying out the range of practises that came into being around what he discovered. My guess is that if we really apply ourselves to that pretty soon we will have more than enough to occupy us and we will stop worrying about whether it is the same or different to Christianity, or Taoism, or Vedanta.
There are only 24 hours in a day and a whole lot of Buddhadhamma to actualise.