YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

no (khandhas)aggregates? - Page 4 - Dhamma Wheel

no (khandhas)aggregates?

A forum for members who wish to develop a deeper understanding of the Pali Canon and associated Commentaries, which for discussion purposes are both treated as authoritative.

Moderator: Mahavihara moderator

User avatar
robertk
Posts: 2407
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: no (khandhas)aggregates?

Postby robertk » Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:10 am


User avatar
robertk
Posts: 2407
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: no (khandhas)aggregates?

Postby robertk » Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:12 am


User avatar
robertk
Posts: 2407
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: no (khandhas)aggregates?

Postby robertk » Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:14 am


User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: no (khandhas)aggregates?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:31 am

Greetings Robert,

If dhammas are regarded as atomic and irreducible, they cannot be said to be reduced via "passing away", nor increased via "arising", because such transitional modes are inconsistent with the digital or binary (1/0, exist/doesn'texist) nature of anything which is inherently atomic and irreducible.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
robertk
Posts: 2407
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: no (khandhas)aggregates?

Postby robertk » Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:35 am


User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: no (khandhas)aggregates?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:38 am

Greetings Robert,

Yes, I accept that what you present is the Classical Theravada position, in spite of what the suttas actually say.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
robertk
Posts: 2407
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: no (khandhas)aggregates?

Postby robertk » Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:41 am


User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: no (khandhas)aggregates?

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:44 am


User avatar
robertk
Posts: 2407
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: no (khandhas)aggregates?

Postby robertk » Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:44 am


User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: no (khandhas)aggregates?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:46 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
robertk
Posts: 2407
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: no (khandhas)aggregates?

Postby robertk » Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:56 am


User avatar
Dan74
Posts: 3012
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: no (khandhas)aggregates?

Postby Dan74 » Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:32 am

Of what use is the duality of real vs unreal for practice?

To me 'real' is a bit of a black box - 'can't go in - it's real' but definition, there is "it" and there is "me" or "citta" or something that perceives. Whereas, if all these designations are put aside as provisional, then real investigation with no preconceived notions of 'real' or 'unreal', can take place.
_/|\_

User avatar
robertk
Posts: 2407
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: no (khandhas)aggregates?

Postby robertk » Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:52 am


User avatar
robertk
Posts: 2407
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: no (khandhas)aggregates?

Postby robertk » Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:22 am


User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: no (khandhas)aggregates?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:25 am


User avatar
robertk
Posts: 2407
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: no (khandhas)aggregates?

Postby robertk » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:12 am

Dear Tilt,
take the case of a dog seeing a bone. The dog doesn't think "ah bone, I will eat that" . What happens is similar to the process described by Nyanaponika on seeing a rose.
After the first sensedoor process which sees the colors comprising the bone there are mind door processes. This is repeated millions of times- a short time in conventional time, but very long in citta moments- before the dog realizes that it is edible food. All pre-linguistic and for the dog it doesn't even get thought about in linguistic words.
Yet there is knowing, after enough processes, that it is food.

User avatar
Zom
Posts: 1645
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 6:38 pm
Location: Russia, Saint-Petersburg
Contact:

Re: no (khandhas)aggregates?

Postby Zom » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:17 am

No need to cite Visuddhimagga to prove it.

There is a sutta 8-) SN 22.94

http://suttacentral.net/sn22.94/en/


And what is it, bhikkhus, that the wise in the world agree upon as existing, of which I too say that it exists? Form that is impermanent, suffering, and subject to change: this the wise in the world agree upon as existing, and I too say that it exists. Feeling … Perception … Volitional formations … Consciousness that is impermanent, suffering, and subject to change: this the wise in the world agree upon as existing, and I too say that it exists.

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: no (khandhas)aggregates?

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:29 am


User avatar
Mkoll
Posts: 6269
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:55 pm
Location: California

Re: no (khandhas)aggregates?

Postby Mkoll » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:42 am

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: no (khandhas)aggregates?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:56 am



Return to “Classical Theravāda”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine