YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

What's the point of jhana? - Dhamma Wheel

What's the point of jhana?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
User avatar
Spiny Norman
Posts: 4918
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Spam, wonderful spam

What's the point of jhana?

Postby Spiny Norman » Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:10 am

What is the purpose of developing jhana in the context of the 8-fold path?

We've touched on this in the "jhana and hindrances" thread, but I feel it would be interesting to address the question directly.

As a starting point I'd like to observe that samma samadhi is defined in terms of jhana.

Your thoughts?
"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

User avatar
Modus.Ponens
Posts: 2637
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Gallifrey

Re: What's the point of jhana?

Postby Modus.Ponens » Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:20 am

To paraphrase Leigh Brasington, if you try to cut a table in half with butter knife, it will take very long. If you do it with a sharpened knife it will take less time. The time you spend developing jhana is compensated next.

Besides, the path without samatha is very hard. What better than walk the path happily?
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: What's the point of jhana?

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:34 am


User avatar
Mkoll
Posts: 6269
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:55 pm
Location: California

Re: What's the point of jhana?

Postby Mkoll » Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:16 pm

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

User avatar
manas
Posts: 2251
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: What's the point of jhana?

Postby manas » Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:42 am

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8502
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: What's the point of jhana?

Postby cooran » Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:58 am

Hello Manas,

Bhikkhu Bodhi seems to indicate that, though Jhanas may be attained earlier, they are necessary for a Non-Returner onwards:

Jhanas and the lay Disciple according to the Pali Suttas
http://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebdha267.htm

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

User avatar
Spiny Norman
Posts: 4918
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Spam, wonderful spam

Re: What's the point of jhana?

Postby Spiny Norman » Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:10 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

User avatar
Spiny Norman
Posts: 4918
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Spam, wonderful spam

Re: What's the point of jhana?

Postby Spiny Norman » Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:14 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: What's the point of jhana?

Postby Ben » Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:31 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

User avatar
manas
Posts: 2251
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: What's the point of jhana?

Postby manas » Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:23 pm

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

User avatar
Anagarika
Posts: 914
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:25 pm

Re: What's the point of jhana?

Postby Anagarika » Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:22 am

This article by Ven. Thanissaro seems to place the jhanas at the center of the meditative path: http://www.dhammatalks.org/Archive/Writ ... 0Jhana.pdf

The purpose is to get the mind steady enough, long enough, so it can see. When it sees, it can let go. When it lets go, it’s free. That’s what this practice is all about. That’s what the Buddha meant when he said, “Go, do jhana.” It encompasses all of the aspects of developing the mind.

I read the Bhikkhu Bodhi article, and it is interesting to see the argument that stream entry may be attainable without jhana. By comparison, Ven. Thanissaro suggests that jhana is at the core of the meditation process. Jhana establishing samatha and vipassana, and then when in jhana, elevating samatha and vipassana to a higher level. This reading resonates with me. Why else would the Buddha admonish the monks to find the root of a tree or an empty building and "do jhana" unless it was fundamental to the path? Perhaps Bhikkhu Bodhi's scholarship involves the later commentaries and Abhi views to such an extent that this fundamental point becomes blurred. I don't have an answer, but it's an interesting question.

User avatar
Pondera
Posts: 573
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: What's the point of jhana?

Postby Pondera » Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:10 pm


User avatar
Dhammanando
Posts: 3521
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Huai Bong, Lamphun

Re: What's the point of jhana?

Postby Dhammanando » Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:26 pm


User avatar
fivebells
Posts: 416
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:52 am

Re: What's the point of jhana?

Postby fivebells » Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:30 pm

Thanissaro covers the translation of this phrase in detail in (). While his brief translation is still "Go, Do Jhana," his explanation agrees with Dhammanando.

User avatar
Spiny Norman
Posts: 4918
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Spam, wonderful spam

Re: What's the point of jhana?

Postby Spiny Norman » Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:48 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

User avatar
Anagarika
Posts: 914
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:25 pm

Re: What's the point of jhana?

Postby Anagarika » Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:01 pm


User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: What's the point of jhana?

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:24 pm


User avatar
Dhammanando
Posts: 3521
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Huai Bong, Lamphun

Re: What's the point of jhana?

Postby Dhammanando » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:16 pm


User avatar
Mkoll
Posts: 6269
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:55 pm
Location: California

Re: What's the point of jhana?

Postby Mkoll » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:29 pm

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

User avatar
Dhammanando
Posts: 3521
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Huai Bong, Lamphun

Re: What's the point of jhana?

Postby Dhammanando » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:32 pm



Return to “Samatha Bhāvana”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine

cron