The Intentions of Lord Buddha's Teachings

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christopher:::
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Re: The Intentions of Lord Buddha's Teachings

Post by christopher::: »

Element wrote:
christopher::: wrote:Beautiful little gem, indeed, Drolma. Thank you for sharing that!

:heart:
Actually, this gem is usually translated 'for the many' rather than the 'majority'. Still, it is not as ignorant as 'all'. :reading:
Bikkus, you should all wander about for the benefit and happiness of the many, help the people of this world, support and provide well-being to all dieties and human beings.

:reading:
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
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Dhammanando
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Re: The Intentions of Lord Buddha's Teachings

Post by Dhammanando »

Hi Will,
Will wrote:If an Arahant wanted to "wander about for the benefit and happiness of the majority, help the people of this world, support and provide well-being to all deities and human beings" for more than his (or her) present lifetime, could he?
No, they can only help beings after their death by what they do before it. For example, Mahākassapa kept up a very strict ascetic observance long after his own attainment of arahatta, and said that he was doing so out of compassion for later generations (i.e. as an example to future bhikkhus).
Or could an Arahant extend the length of his present lifetime, with the same motive?
No. In Theravada teaching a being's maximum life-span is determined at conception by the kamma that generated the relinking consciousness. One may shorten that life-span by akusala actions, unhealthy living etc.; one may perform kusala actions that will lead to a longer life-span in future lives; but there's nothing one can do, or that anyone else may do for one, to extend the span of the present life beyond what was fixed at conception.
The Mahayana has a tradition that several Arahants were asked by Buddha to protect his Dhamma until Maitreya Buddha comes - anything like that in Theravada?
In the Theravāda it is accepted that some noble disciples of a Buddha will still be around at the time of the next Buddha. These will consist of those disciples who were reborn in the higher Brahmā realms, e.g., non-returners in the five Pure Abodes. One example in the suttas is the Ghaṭikāra in the two Ghaṭikārasuttas, who attained non-returning under Kassapa Buddha and aeons later as a Suddhāvāsa deva visited Gotama Buddha. It's also accepted that some sense-sphere devas attained the ariyan path and that they'll be around for quite a while, though not long enough to meet the next Buddha. Some of these may exert a protective influence, notably Sakka, the chief of the Tāvātiṃsa heaven.

On the other hand, the Theravāda doesn't accept the Mahāyāna belief that Mahākaśyapa is currently sitting in some kind of samādhi on Kukkuṭagiri Mountain, with the same human body but now invisible, and waiting for Maitreya. Even in an auspicious aeon the intervals between Buddhas are just too great for human beings to live that long. Moreover, Mahākaśyapa's parinibbāna is reported in the Pali commentaries and one of his teeth is enshrined in a stupa in Sri Lanka.

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
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Cittasanto
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Re: The Intentions of Lord Buddha's Teachings

Post by Cittasanto »

Hi Dhammanando
I put this earlier on the previous page
Hi All
Well I think the intention to inspire is secondary to living in a way conductive to Nibbana or living if Nibbana is already realised!
but if I was going to choose a spiritual teacher to learn from it would be someone I wanted to be like not someone who was like me.
many people go to a certain teacher, read their books etc because they are like them, but that is not something I am interested in. someone to aspire to be like than someone to go drinking with!
but I think I will change one part to
Well I think the intention to inspire is secondary to living in a way conductive to Nibbana if unenlightened or if Nibbana is already realised, being an inspiration
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Anders
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Re: The Intentions of Lord Buddha's Teachings

Post by Anders »

Dhammanando wrote:On the other hand, the Theravāda doesn't accept the Mahāyāna belief that Mahākaśyapa is currently sitting in some kind of samādhi on Kukkuṭagiri Mountain, with the same human body but now invisible, and waiting for Maitreya. Even in an auspicious aeon the intervals between Buddhas are just too great for human beings to live that long.
Angels dancing on a pin question here: What does the mahavihara make of the statement that the Buddha could extent his lifetime for a kalpa? Does it go with the 'it means 100 years line', or that he literally could extent his life for a kalpa if he wanted to? And if so, is that purely a privilege of samyaksambuddhas?
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Dhammanando
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Re: The Intentions of Lord Buddha's Teachings

Post by Dhammanando »

Hi Anders,
Anders Honore wrote:Angels dancing on a pin question here: What does the mahavihara make of the statement that the Buddha could extent his lifetime for a kalpa? Does it go with the 'it means 100 years line', or that he literally could extent his life for a kalpa if he wanted to?
At the Third Council the Theravādins rejected the view that kappa in this context means an aeon (Points of Controversy 258-60). The contrary view is attributed to the Mahāsanghikas. The commentary to the Mahāparinibbāna Sutta takes kappa to mean the human life-span (āyukappa) at the time a person is living, hence 100 years or so at the time of Gotama.
And if so, is that purely a privilege of samyaksambuddhas?
According to the Mahāparinibbāna Sutta it's anyone who has "developed the four roads to power practised them frequently, made them his vehicle, made them his base, established them, become familiar with them and properly undertaken them." So that would seem to leave open the possibility of persons other than Buddhas doing this, but I've never encountered any anecdotes in which this happens and the commentary doesn't say anything one way or the other.

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu

P.S., an interesting article about angels dancing on a pin:
http://www.gbt.org/text/sayers.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It seems it wasn't so stupid after all.
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
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Anders
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Re: The Intentions of Lord Buddha's Teachings

Post by Anders »

thank you, bhante.

PS. I'm not entirely unsympathetic to the arguments in that article either.
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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: freedom

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

Dhammanando wrote:...In the Theravāda it is accepted that some noble disciples of a Buddha will still be around at the time of the next Buddha. These will consist of those disciples who were reborn in the higher Brahmā realms, e.g., non-returners in the five Pure Abodes. ...
Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
Many thanks Bhante.

It sure seems an odd way to look at "liberation" though. When free of uncontrolled rebirth, I would hope freedom to have controlled, deliberate rebirths would remain. But it sounds like the Theravada view is clear - one is liberated from all dukkha & the skandhas & any altruistic multi-lifetime vows too - no matter what.

So if one chose and vowed over many lives, as one's goal, not the 4th and final stage of Arahant, but the lesser one of Non-Returner, then one could help beings over periods of time longer than our normal 80 years or so? But would such Non-Returners be confined to living only in their specific deva realm and could not "come down" here - even if they wanted to?
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
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Dhammanando
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Re: freedom

Post by Dhammanando »

Hi Will,
Will wrote:It sure seems an odd way to look at "liberation" though.
To me it's just baby-talk to suggest that liberation might consist in anything but bhavanirodha.
  • "Bhikkhus, just as even the tiniest piece of excrement has an evil stink, even so, I praise not even the tiniest state of existence, not even that which lasts for only one snap of the fingers."
    (AN.i.34)
When free of uncontrolled rebirth, I would hope freedom to have controlled, deliberate rebirths would remain.
The Buddha of the Pali Suttas seems to have been a little forgetful on this subject of "controlled deliberate rebirths". :smile:
But would such Non-Returners be confined to living only in their specific deva realm and could not "come down" here - even if they wanted to?
The suttas have accounts of non-returner devas from the Pure Abodes coming to visit the Buddha. So, it seems they can come down to us if they feel like it. But I've never heard of them actively intervening in human affairs like some of the sense-sphere devas are reported to do.

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: The Intentions of Lord Buddha's Teachings

Post by Ngawang Drolma. »

Hi all,

I looked up bhavanirodha and the best definition I could find is that it's the subjugation of becoming. And if I'm understanding Bhante, that is the nature or essense (sorry for the loaded word) of liberation. Is this accurate?

Thank you,
Drolma /\
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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: The Intentions of Lord Buddha's Teachings

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

Bhante D: To me it's just baby-talk to suggest that liberation might consist in anything but bhavanirodha.
Translation please Bhante.
Last edited by Nicholas Weeks on Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
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Re: The Intentions of Lord Buddha's Teachings

Post by Dhammanando »

Hi Will (& Drolma)
Will wrote:Goo-goo, num-num twanswation pwese.
"Cessation of being."
  • Saying, “Good, friend,” the bhikkhus delighted and rejoiced in the venerable Sariputta’s words. Then they asked him a further question: “But, friend, might there be another way in which a noble disciple is one of right view, whose view is straight, who has perfect confidence in the Dhamma, and has arrived at this true Dhamma?”

    “There might be, friends. When, friends, a noble disciple understands being, the origin of being, the cessation of being (bhava-nirodha), and the way leading to the cessation of being, in that way he is one of right view, whose view is straight, who has perfect confidence in the Dhamma, and has arrived at this true Dhamma.

    “And what is being, what is the origin of being, what is the cessation of being, what is the way leading to the cessation of being? There are these three kinds of being: sense-sphere being, fine-material being, and immaterial being. With the arising of clinging there is the arising of being. With the cessation of clinging there is the cessation of being. The way leading to the cessation of being is just this Noble Eightfold Path; that is, right view, right thought, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration.

    “When a noble disciple has thus understood being, the origin of being, the cessation of being, and the way leading to the cessation of being, he entirely abandons the underlying tendency to lust, he abolishes the underlying tendency to aversion, he extirpates the underlying tendency to the view and conceit ‘I am,’ and by abandoning ignorance and arousing true knowledge he here and now makes an end of suffering. In that way too a noble disciple is one of right view, whose view is straight, who has perfect confidence in the Dhamma, and has arrived at this true Dhamma.”
    (Sammādiṭṭhi Sutta, MN. 9. Ñanamoli/Bodhi trans.)
Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
Element

Re: The Intentions of Lord Buddha's Teachings

Post by Element »

Dhammanando wrote:“When a noble disciple has thus understood being, the origin of being, the cessation of being and the way leading to the cessation of being, he entirely abandons the underlying tendency to lust, he abolishes the underlying tendency to aversion, he extirpates the underlying tendency to the view and conceit ‘I am,’ and by abandoning ignorance and arousing true knowledge he here and now makes an end of suffering.
Indeed. Sadhu! Well spoken by the Venerable Sariputta. :thumbsup:
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