Ajahn Mun - "supposings"

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kirk5a
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Ajahn Mun - "supposings"

Postby kirk5a » Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:56 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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gavesako
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Re: Ajahn Mun - "supposings"

Postby gavesako » Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:50 pm

The original word in Pali/Thai would be "sammuti" which is also sometimes translated as conventional truth.
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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kirk5a
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Re: Ajahn Mun - "supposings"

Postby kirk5a » Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:04 pm

Very interesting Bhante, thank you. So Ajahn Mun's usage of sammuti would appear to be at least conceptually related to the "two truths doctrine" - sammuti sacca, paramattha sacca (although not explicitly developed in that way).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_truths_doctrine
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

dagon
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Re: Ajahn Mun - "supposings"

Postby dagon » Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:38 pm


chownah
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Re: Ajahn Mun - "supposings"

Postby chownah » Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:26 am


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kirk5a
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Re: Ajahn Mun - "supposings"

Postby kirk5a » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:25 am

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

pulga
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Re: Ajahn Mun - "supposings"

Postby pulga » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:47 am


chownah
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Re: Ajahn Mun - "supposings"

Postby chownah » Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:09 am


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gavesako
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Re: Ajahn Mun - "supposings"

Postby gavesako » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:14 am

You have to be careful in reading too much into a simple Thai sentence. Thai/Lao language has many loanwords from Sanskrit and Pali, and the word "sammuti/sammati" is one of them. It is used in non-technical contexts in everyday conversation as well, such as "Sommoot waa..." (Assuming that...). I don't think Ajahn Mun was particuarly thinking of the "Two Truths" distinction here, or that it was even an issue for him. One cannot simply back-translate a Thai sentence into its supposed Pali roots without distorting the meaning. More appropriate approach is to become familiar with how particular expressions are used in a particular Buddhist culture within their own context, and then translate them into English on the basis of that.
:reading:
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
- Translations and history of Pali texts
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Mkoll
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Re: Ajahn Mun - "supposings"

Postby Mkoll » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:15 am

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

pulga
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Re: Ajahn Mun - "supposings"

Postby pulga » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:17 am


chownah
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Re: Ajahn Mun - "supposings"

Postby chownah » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:45 pm

Gavesako,
Thanks. I have often had a difficult time asking my wife to assume something while teaching her about farming technique.....knowing "sommoot waa" will definitely improve our interpersonal communication!
chownah

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kirk5a
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Re: Ajahn Mun - "supposings"

Postby kirk5a » Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:57 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

chownah
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Re: Ajahn Mun - "supposings"

Postby chownah » Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:11 am

kirk5a,
Can you give a short definition of the two truths doctrine?
chownah

pegembara
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Re: Ajahn Mun - "supposings"

Postby pegembara » Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:31 am

"Citta, these are the world's designations, the world's expressions, the world's ways of speaking, the world's descriptions, with which the Tathagata expresses himself but without grasping to them."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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cooran
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Re: Ajahn Mun - "supposings"

Postby cooran » Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:56 am

Hello chownah, all,

Tilt once posted this link:

Theravada Version of the Two Truths doctrine

http://skb.or.kr/down/papers/094.pdf

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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gavesako
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Re: Ajahn Mun - "supposings"

Postby gavesako » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:08 am

In this clip you will hear Ajahn Chah actually using the term "sammuti" (sommoot) to explain anatta:

Ajahn Chah Speaks หลวงพ่อชา สอนธรรมะ
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPN-Lc6lBi4

By the way, in the Thai forest tradition "sammuti" (conventional) is not normally contrasted with "paramattha" (ultimate) but rather with "vimutti" (liberation). "Sommoot" and "vimoot" rhyme in Thai.
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
- Translations and history of Pali texts
- Sutta translations

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mikenz66
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Re: Ajahn Mun - "supposings"

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:13 am


chownah
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Re: Ajahn Mun - "supposings"

Postby chownah » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:08 pm

mikenz66,
I have no idea if Mun would want to avoid it or if he would not want to avoid it. My comment was based on my understanding of the excerpt and what it might indicate.....I now know that my understanding of the excerpt was mistaken....I thought Mun had not used the term sammuti and it has now come to light that in fact he did. If I had known that he actually did use the word sammuti I would not have commented.
chownah

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kirk5a
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Re: Ajahn Mun - "supposings"

Postby kirk5a » Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:12 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230


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