Ajahn Mun - "supposings"

[cooran]

Hello chownah, all,

Tilt once posted this link:

Theravada Version of the Two Truths doctrine

http://skb.or.kr/down/papers/094.pdf

With metta,
Chris

[gavesako]

In this clip you will hear Ajahn Chah actually using the term "sammuti" (sommoot) to explain anatta:

Ajahn Chah Speaks หลวงพ่อชา สอนธรรมะ
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPN-Lc6lBi4

By the way, in the Thai forest tradition "sammuti" (conventional) is not normally contrasted with "paramattha" (ultimate) but rather with "vimutti" (liberation). "Sommoot" and "vimoot" rhyme in Thai.

[mikenz66]

Seems to me that in the excerpt you gave above that perhaps Ajahn Mun was trying to avoid the two truths doctrine by using the term supposings and avoiding the term sammuti.
chownah

Why do you think that he would he avoid it? I have not studied Ajahn Mun extensively, but most Asian teachers that I am familiar with, including forest ajahns such as Ajahn Chah, use conventional Theravada concepts like conventional and ultimate reality...

Some people will hear the words, ''Nothing is mine,'' and they will get the idea they should throw away all their possessions. With only superficial understanding, people will get into arguments about what this means and how to apply it. ''This is not my self,'' doesn't mean you should end your life or throw away your possessions. It means you should give up attachment. There is the level of conventional reality and the level of ultimate reality - supposition and liberation. On the level of convention, there is Mr. A, Mrs. B, Mr. M., Mrs. N. and so on. We use these suppositions for convenience in communicating and functioning in the world. The Buddha did not teach that we shouldn't use these things, but that we shouldn't be attached to them. We should realize that they are empty.
http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Dhamma_Goes_Westward.php

Mike

[chownah]

mikenz66,
I have no idea if Mun would want to avoid it or if he would not want to avoid it. My comment was based on my understanding of the excerpt and what it might indicate.....I now know that my understanding of the excerpt was mistaken....I thought Mun had not used the term sammuti and it has now come to light that in fact he did. If I had known that he actually did use the word sammuti I would not have commented.
chownah

[kirk5a]

kirk5a,
Can you give a short definition of the two truths doctrine?
chownah

The link I gave earlier gives a variety of takes on the idea.

The two truths doctrine states that there is:
Relative or common-sense truth (Sanskrit samvṛtisatya, Pāli sammuti sacca, Tibetan kun-rdzob bden-pa), which describes our daily experience of a concrete world, and
Ultimate truth (Sanskrit, paramārthasatya, Pāli paramattha sacca, Tibetan: don-dam bden-pa), which describes the ultimate reality as sunyata, empty of concrete and inherent characteristics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_truths_doctrine

[pegembara]

Here is another exposition on conventional and ultimate realities.

"By & large, Kaccayana, this world is supported by (takes as its object) a polarity, that of existence(convention) & non-existence. But when one sees the origination of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'non-existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one. When one sees the cessation of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one.

"'Everything exists': That is one extreme. 'Everything doesn't exist': That is a second extreme. Avoiding these two extremes, the Tathagata teaches the Dhamma via the middle: From ignorance as a requisite condition come fabrications.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

All the things in the world are suppositions that we've supposed into being. Once we've supposed them, we fall for our own supposings, so nobody lets them go. They turn into views and pride, into attachment. This attachment is something that never ends. It's an affair of samsara that flows without respite, with no way of coming to closure. But if we really know our suppositions, we'll know release. If we really know release, we'll know our suppositions. That's when you know the Dhamma that can come to closure.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... _sure.html

[gavesako]

Quote from a Sutta:

A monk hears that someone is afflicted or dead. He is stirred and feels agitation (saṃvijjati saṃvegaṃ āpajjati). Thus agitated he carefully applies himself (yoniso padahati) and realises supreme truth (paramasaccaṃ sacchikaroti) (A.2.113).