Advice needed: spider vs spider

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chicka-Dee
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Re: Advice needed: spider vs spider

Post by chicka-Dee »

pmwhewitt wrote:I'm stuck with what to do! Do I interfere with nature and help the spider, making the other spider lose its meal, or do I let nature take its course, condemning the little spider to death?
This is a great question to contemplate. Been contemplating a similar question, myself.. :thinking: :tongue:

I think it entirely depends on what you personally perceive to be a 'wrong'. Is it 'wrong' for one spider to kill and consume another? You see a little spider that is about to sacrifice it's life. You have the impulse to intervene, perhaps identifying with the poor little guy. But wait.. if the predator cannot catch it's prey, it's gonna starve to death. Either way, one of those spiders will perish. This is nature's way. There is just no way around it. If you intervene, the predator will die if it cannot find other sustenance. If you do not intervene, the prey spider will die. Intervene or not.. will it ulitmately make a difference? (Back and forth, round and round you go.. caught up in mind's reasoning).

Nature, it seems, has already determined what is to happen, as you sit there in contemplation. But then you are also a part of nature. If you had decided to intervene, it would have changed the destiny of both of those spider's lives. The 'little' (prey) spider would have gone on to live, and perhaps to reproduce, or perhaps to be another spider's meal OR even to eat another spider HIMSELF! What a conundrum! What is the 'right' thing to do, not knowing the full outcome of all possible events?

It's a judgement call. Most often, it's probably better to let nature take it's course, and not to interfere. But if there is a perceived 'wrong' and you see something that violates your personal values, well, then, you have to decide for yourself whether you should intervene or not.
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Dhammakid
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Re: Advice needed: spider vs spider

Post by Dhammakid »

Hello all,
I really don't see this as the existential conundrum it's been made out to be :tongue:

Many animals eat their own kind. Some sharks will eat their babies (so I'm told on Discovery Channel's recent "Shark Week" series, haha), and of course spiders and other creepy crawlers do the same.

Let the spiders live out their karma and let nature take its course. No need to intervene. The insect/arachnid lifespan is pretty short anyway. Say a prayer or paritta for them so they might obtain a higher rebirth.

Of course, just because we're a part of nature doesn't make it right for us to go around eating each other. Unless it's the zombie apocalypse, then it's perfectly alright :tongue:

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Re: Advice needed: spider vs spider

Post by Individual »

pmwhewitt wrote:Okay so I'm in a right kerfuffle right now!

I've had one of those spiders that just sit in the corners of ceilings in my room for weeks now, and its never done anything before really, but just now I've had a smaller spider strolling around my room.

This lazy spider I've had for a while has just come out from its corner and promptly spun the other spider in its web, and appears to be eating it.

I'm stuck with what to do! Do I interfere with nature and help the spider, making the other spider lose its meal, or do I let nature take its course, condemning the little spider to death?

Stupid I know, but I'm stuck here!

Thanks.
OMG another Buddhist insect dilemma!!

What will we do!?! What will we do!?! :tantrum:
The best things in life aren't things.

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chicka-Dee
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Re: Advice needed: spider vs spider

Post by chicka-Dee »

Dhammakid wrote:I really don't see this as the existential conundrum it's been made out to be :tongue:
Just for the record, I wasn't exclusively talking about spiders. I kinda see this question a lot like a Zen koan. The implications are quite interesting to think about, particularly when we substitute a situation that has more personal meaning for us.
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Re: Advice needed: spider vs spider

Post by mikenz66 »

chicka-Dee wrote: Just for the record, I wasn't exclusively talking about spiders. I kinda see this question a lot like a Zen koan. The implications are quite interesting to think about, particularly when we substitute a situation that has more personal meaning for us.
A comment that a Theravada Teacher (Ajahn Brahm) often makes is that we have to let go of the idea that we can fix everything (or everyone). But, having observed that, we can still care.

He has frequently mentioned this in reference to how some (leaving the fraction indeterminate so I don't get in too much trouble...) modern medics approach patients: too much desire to cure and too little understand of how to care...

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mikenz66
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Re: Advice needed: spider vs spider

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mikenz66 wrote:
chicka-Dee wrote: Just for the record, I wasn't exclusively talking about spiders. I kinda see this question a lot like a Zen koan. The implications are quite interesting to think about, particularly when we substitute a situation that has more personal meaning for us.
A comment that a Theravada Teacher (Ajahn Brahm) often makes is that we have to let go of the idea that we can fix everything (or everyone). But, having observed that, we can still care, or "be there for them..."

He has frequently mentioned this in reference to how some (leaving the fraction indeterminate so I don't get in too much trouble...) modern medics approach patients: too much desire to cure and too little understanding of how to care...

Metta
Mike
Last edited by mikenz66 on Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Advice needed: spider vs spider

Post by Dhammakid »

As usual, Ajahn Brahm puts it beautifully.

:anjali:
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Re: Advice needed: spider vs spider

Post by Annapurna »

What Ben said. :smile:

Keep the house tidy, carry spiders out, and you avoid the dilemma.

This is the only mildly poisonous spider where I live, /like wasp or hornet) but I have some in my garden, and on my patio...you walk :shock: into them....

If I don't remove them, they have hundreds of babies around them eventually. . . :o

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chicka-Dee
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Re: Advice needed: spider vs spider

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mikenz66 wrote:
chicka-Dee wrote: Just for the record, I wasn't exclusively talking about spiders. I kinda see this question a lot like a Zen koan. The implications are quite interesting to think about, particularly when we substitute a situation that has more personal meaning for us.
A comment that a Theravada Teacher (Ajahn Brahm) often makes is that we have to let go of the idea that we can fix everything (or everyone). But, having observed that, we can still care.

He has frequently mentioned this in reference to how some (leaving the fraction indeterminate so I don't get in too much trouble...) modern medics approach patients: too much desire to cure and too little understand of how to care...

Metta
Mike
I absolutely agree. :namaste:

But it is human to get emotionally involved, sometimes. We each have our learning curve on this. And it can be a wonderful experience to go through this personal growth.

Metta
Dee
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Re: Advice needed: spider vs spider

Post by Individual »

Cannibalism is an entirely natural phenomenon among some spiders and the idea of intervening is as absurd as stopping a lion from eating an antelope.
The best things in life aren't things.

The Diamond Sutra
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mikenz66
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Re: Advice needed: spider vs spider

Post by mikenz66 »

chicka-Dee wrote: But it is human to get emotionally involved, sometimes. We each have our learning curve on this. And it can be a wonderful experience to go through this personal growth.
Sure it is "human" to be "emotionally involved". The Buddha's teachings are not "common sense" or "human", so they are difficult to fathom, and difficult to implement.

How does one have compassion that avoids the "near enemy" of pity/sadness? How does one have loving kindness that avoids the "near enemy" of desire/lust? How does one have sympathetic joy that avoids the "near enemy" of exuberance/excitement? How does one have equanimity that avoids the "near enemy" of indifference?
http://www.brahmaviharas.org/article-Th ... iharas.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's not easy...

Metta
Mike
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chicka-Dee
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Re: Advice needed: spider vs spider

Post by chicka-Dee »

mikenz66 wrote:
chicka-Dee wrote: But it is human to get emotionally involved, sometimes. We each have our learning curve on this. And it can be a wonderful experience to go through this personal growth.
Sure it is "human" to be "emotionally involved". The Buddha's teachings are not "common sense" or "human", so they are difficult to fathom, and difficult to implement.

How does one have compassion that avoids the "near enemy" of pity/sadness? How does one have loving kindness that avoids the "near enemy" of desire/lust? How does one have sympathetic joy that avoids the "near enemy" of exuberance/excitement? How does one have equanimity that avoids the "near enemy" of indifference?
http://www.brahmaviharas.org/article-Th ... iharas.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's not easy...

Metta
Mike
Hi Mike,

Thanks, I appreciate what you say, here. It is very subtle, and not at all easy.

With Metta,

Dee
"The image is a dream. The beauty is real. Can you see the difference?" ~Richard Bach from "Illusions"
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