Right mindfullness vs Right concentration

[chg2winter]

How do you describe the difference between the two? Right mindfullness vs Right concentration

[bodom]

Here is a short snippet from Bhante G:

Mindfulness is a broader and larger function than concentration. it is an all-encompassing function. Concentration is exclusive. It settles down on one item and ignores everything else. Mindfulness is inclusive. It stands back from the focus of attention and watches with a broad focus, quick to notice any change that occurs.

See the chapter Mindfulness Versus Concentration in his book Mindfulness in Plain English from whixh thisa quote is taken:

http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe14.html

[daverupa]

The two terms can be unpacked a little:

sammasati & sammasamadhi

This 'samma' doesn't really mean 'right', it means 'integrous' in the sense that sati and samadhi and the other six aspects of the Path are integrated with one another, each one supporting the later ones as well as supporting the current Path progress one is experiencing.

So, samma-sati is a mindfulness that's integrated with, among other things, samma-vayama, 'integrous effort' (right effort, otherwise).

So with integrated effort tasking us with generating and increasing wholesome states while reducing and eliminating unwholesome states, it takes integrated mindfulness to note which aspect of effort is called for in any actual case, and it takes integrated composure (samadhi, though often rendered 'concentration' as you have it) to hardwire these changes into citta (to be very brief).

Another thing this is all integrated with is samma-sankappa, integrous ('right') intention, specifically renunciation. This is the idea that the five physical senses are set aside as unsavory inputs, and this is what generates seclusion from sensuality, a significant part of samma-samadhi.

So these terms aren't so much strict categories as they are different colors on a color wheel, with blending and mutual reinforcement between these Path factors. In this way they are perhaps best seen as facets of practice, instead of separate modules of practice.

[fivebells]

Mindfulness means keeping something in mind, e.g., to remember to rest attention on the breath in some way and bring it back when it wanders. Concentration means attending specifically to some object such as the breath.

[santa100]

Ven. Bodhi's instruction from his 8NP essay: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... d.html#ch6

[Mkoll]

In the strict sense in regards to the N8P, right mindfulness is the 4 satipatthanas and right concentration is the 4 jhanas.

"And what, monks, is right mindfulness? (i) There is the case where a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, aware, & mindful — putting away greed & distress with reference to the world. (ii) He remains focused on feelings in & of themselves — ardent, aware, & mindful — putting away greed & distress with reference to the world. (iii) He remains focused on the mind in & of itself — ardent, aware, & mindful — putting away greed & distress with reference to the world. (iv) He remains focused on mental qualities in & of themselves — ardent, aware, & mindful — putting away greed & distress with reference to the world. This, monks, is called right mindfulness.

"And what, monks, is right concentration? (i) There is the case where a monk — quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful (mental) qualities — enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. (ii) With the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, he enters & remains in the second jhana: rapture & pleasure born of concentration, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation — internal assurance. (iii) With the fading of rapture, he remains equanimous, mindful, & alert, and senses pleasure with the body. He enters & remains in the third jhana, of which the Noble Ones declare, 'Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasant abiding.' (iv) With the abandoning of pleasure & pain — as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress — he enters & remains in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither pleasure nor pain. This, monks, is called right concentration."

-SN 45.8

[Spiny Norman]

In the strict sense in regards to the N8P, right mindfulness is the 4 satipatthanas and right concentration is the 4 jhanas.

Yes, that's my understanding.

[Spiny Norman]

Mindfulness means keeping something in mind, e.g., to remember to rest attention on the breath in some way and bring it back when it wanders. Concentration means attending specifically to some object such as the breath.

I'm not sure I see the distinction here.

[chownah]

Maybe mindfulness is like grabbing ahold of something and not letting go and concentration is like closely examining the thing you are grabbing ahold of.
chownah

[Spiny Norman]

See the chapter Mindfulness Versus Concentration in his book Mindfulness in Plain English from whixh thisa quote is taken:

http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe14.html

That's interesting. Another quote is: "Mindfulness picks the objects of attention, and notices when the attention has gone astray. Concentration does the actual work of holding the attention steady on that chosen object."
But this raises a couple of questions for me:
1. In anapanasati it seems like maintaining mindfulness of the breath is the means of developing concentration - so it's a bit chicken-and-egg?
2. How does "concentration" as described here relate to samma-samadhi in terms of the 4 jhanas?

[imagemarie]

The two terms can be unpacked a little:

sammasati & sammasamadhi

This 'samma' doesn't really mean 'right', it means 'integrous' in the sense that sati and samadhi and the other six aspects of the Path are integrated with one another, each one supporting the later ones as well as supporting the current Path progress one is experiencing.

So, samma-sati is a mindfulness that's integrated with, among other things, samma-vayama, 'integrous effort' (right effort, otherwise).

So with integrated effort tasking us with generating and increasing wholesome states while reducing and eliminating unwholesome states, it takes integrated mindfulness to note which aspect of effort is called for in any actual case, and it takes integrated composure (samadhi, though often rendered 'concentration' as you have it) to hardwire these changes into citta (to be very brief).

Another thing this is all integrated with is samma-sankappa, integrous ('right') intention, specifically renunciation. This is the idea that the five physical senses are set aside as unsavory inputs, and this is what generates seclusion from sensuality, a significant part of samma-samadhi.

So these terms aren't so much strict categories as they are different colors on a color wheel, with blending and mutual reinforcement between these Path factors. In this way they are perhaps best seen as facets of practice, instead of separate modules of practice.

This is very helpful. Thank-you.