How to find the middle way in different situations ?

[purple planet]

I didnt do it much - and latley i dont even do 20 minutes - when i did the 8 hours my back didnt hurt

[mikenz66]

"In the same way, Sona, over-aroused persistence leads to restlessness, overly slack persistence leads to laziness. Thus you should determine the right pitch for your persistence, attune[2]the pitch of the [five] faculties [to that], and there pick up your theme."

Yes, I think this balancing of the faculties is what the OP is about. Not the middle way. As I said above, http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 53#p271054 the suttas don't tell us to balance a pinch of "pursuit of sensual happiness" with a dash of "pursuit of self-mortification".


Mike

[Mkoll]

Yes, I think this balancing of the faculties is what the OP is about. Not the middle way. As I said above, http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 53#p271054 the suttas don't tell us to balance a pinch of "pursuit of sensual happiness" with a dash of "pursuit of self-mortification".


Mike

For what it's worth, the Visudhimagga had something to say about balancing the 5 faculties.

5. The Balance of the Faculties

[According to the Visuddhimagga, the balance of the faculties (indriya-samatta) is one of the ten kinds of skill in absorption (appana-kosalla), and it is one of the seven things that lead to the arising of the enlightenment factor "investigation of (material and mental) phenomena" (dhammavicaya-sambojjhanga).]

Imparting balance to the faculties is the equalizing of the controlling faculties of faith, vigor, mindfulness, concentration and wisdom. For if the faith faculty is strong and the others weak, then the vigor faculty cannot perform its function of exerting, the mindfulness faculty its function of attending to the object, the concentration faculty its function of excluding distraction, the wisdom faculty its function of seeing. So the (excessive) strength of the faith faculty should be reduced by reflecting on the phenomenal nature (of faith and its objects), and by not paying attention to what has caused the excessive strength of the faith faculty. Then if the vigor faculty is too strong, the faith faculty cannot perform its function of convincing, nor can the rest of the faculties perform their several functions. So in that case the excessive strength of the vigor faculty should be reduced by cultivating (the enlightenment factors of) tranquillity, concentration and equanimity. So, too, with the other factors, for it should be understood that when any one of them is too strong the others cannot perform their several functions.

However, what is particularly recommended is the balancing of faith with wisdom, and concentration with vigor. For one who is strong in faith and weak in wisdom places his confidence foolishly in an unworthy object. One strong in wisdom and weak in faith errs on the side of cunning and is as hard to cure as a sickness caused by medicine. But with the balancing of the two, faith and wisdom, a man has confidence only in a deserving object.

If there is too much of concentration and too little of vigor, the mind will be overpowered by indolence to which concentration inclines. But if vigor is too strong and concentration too weak, the mind will be overpowered by agitation to which vigor inclines. But concentration coupled with vigor cannot lapse into indolence, and vigor coupled with concentration cannot lapse into agitation. So these two should be balanced; for absorption comes with the balancing of the two.

Again (concentration and faith should be balanced). One working on concentration needs strong faith, since it is with such faith and confidence that he reaches absorption.

As to (the balancing of) concentration and wisdom, one working on concentration (i.e., who practices tranquillity; samatha) needs strong one-pointedness of mind, since that is how he reaches full absorption; and one working on insight (vipassana) needs strong wisdom, since that is how he reaches penetration of (the phenomena's) characteristics; but with the balancing of the two he reaches full absorption as well.

Strong mindfulness, however, is needed in all instances; for mindfulness protects the mind from lapsing into agitation through faith, vigor and wisdom, which tend to agitation, and from lapsing into indolence through concentration, which tends to indolence. So it is as desirable in all instances as a seasoning of salt in all curries, as a prime minister in all the king's business. Hence it is said (in the commentaries): "It was declared by the Exalted One that 'mindfulness, indeed, is of universal use.' Why? Because the mind has mindfulness as its refuge, and mindfulness is manifested as protection, and there is no exertion and restraint of the mind without mindfulness."

— Visuddhimagga, (pp.129-30), Adapted from Bhikkhu Ñanamoli's translation: The Path of Purification, pp.135-36

[mikenz66]

For what it's worth, the Visudhimagga had something to say about balancing the 5 faculties.

Yes, that's very useful advice...


Mike

[kmath]

One strong in wisdom and weak in faith errs on the side of cunning and is as hard to cure as a sickness caused by medicine.

Love that line.

[barcsimalsi]

One strong in wisdom and weak in faith errs on the side of cunning and is as hard to cure as a sickness caused by medicine.

Love that line.

Can you help explain, i thought wisdom helps strengthened everything.

[mikenz66]

In this context it's mundane cleverness, I think. Not liberating wisdom.
There needs to be a balance between faith, which can lead to unthinking belief, and wisdom/reasoning, which can lead to just questioning everything and not getting on with it....


Mike

[Mkoll]

In this context it's mundane cleverness, I think. Not liberating wisdom.

I think so too.

Having a serious imbalance of faith and wisdom will probably be detrimental. However the Buddha himself said that each of us is more inclined to one or the other. It probably depends on our kamma and inclinations.

~

At Savatthi. "Monks, eye-consciousness is inconstant, changeable, alterable. Ear-consciousness... Nose-consciousness... Tongue-consciousness... Body-consciousness... Intellect-consciousness is inconstant, changeable, alterable.

"One who has conviction & belief that these phenomena are this way is called a faith-follower: one who has entered the orderliness of rightness, entered the plane of people of integrity, transcended the plane of the run-of-the-mill. He is incapable of doing any deed by which he might be reborn in hell, in the animal womb, or in the realm of hungry shades. He is incapable of passing away until he has realized the fruit of stream-entry.

"One who, after pondering with a modicum of discernment, has accepted that these phenomena are this way is called a Dhamma-follower: one who has entered the orderliness of rightness, entered the plane of people of integrity, transcended the plane of the run-of-the-mill. He is incapable of doing any deed by which he might be reborn in hell, in the animal womb, or in the realm of hungry shades. He is incapable of passing away until he has realized the fruit of stream-entry.

"One who knows and sees that these phenomena are this way is called a stream-enterer, steadfast, never again destined for states of woe, headed for self-awakening."

-SN 25.3