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the great vegetarian debate - Page 124 - Dhamma Wheel

the great vegetarian debate

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Jhana4
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Jhana4 » Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:26 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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Spiny Norman
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Spiny Norman » Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:28 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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mikenz66
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:24 pm


Jhana4
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Jhana4 » Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:59 pm

My short two line post wasn't about bringing the policy of this board up. It was questioning the regular participants of this thread as to why the would want to be regular contributors to this thread.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby chownah » Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:58 am


beingnobody
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby beingnobody » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:58 pm


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Ron-The-Elder
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:02 pm

Found this today in another online forum. Thought you might be amazed and amused:

http://www.freesangha.com/forums/coffee ... re-animals)/
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

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cooran
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby cooran » Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:11 am

Hello all,

FACT-CHECK - An interesting article:

Do Vegetarians weigh less and have lower risk of disease than Meat-eaters?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-17/p ... ss/5023984

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Ben
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ben » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:23 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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manas
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby manas » Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:52 am

Hi everyone,
just a little input from an ex-vegetarian, I have recently begun working out a a gym, doing weight training to build up upper body muscular strength (if you saw how thin I am you would understand why I have to do this), and I must say that since I've been including modest amounts of fish and free-range chicken in my diet, that I seem to be improving not just in physical strength, but also in general wellbeing. I still think that if one can do it, one ought to be totally vegetarian, due to the suffering endured by animals, but maybe for some people, a bit of animal flesh in the diet is necessary to really thrive? In any case, once I've rebuilt my long-neglected physique, I intend to move back towards a vegetarian diet if I can, so long as I don't grow weak again in the process. (As an aside, I have experimented with eating some lamb also, but found it too 'heavy' for my system, and something seems 'wrong' about the taste, so I'm listening to my body, and not eating the flesh of mammals (pork is out of the question due to parasites, and beef is very unpleasant in my recollection, so I'm not even going there).
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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Ben
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ben » Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:27 am

That is interesting, Manas. I have experienced the same response (increase in energy, well being) as a result of adopting a whole foods plant-based diet.
Kind regards,
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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manas
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby manas » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:43 pm

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby chownah » Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:26 am

manas,
Are you saying that an instance of aversion is what precipitated your changing to a vegetarian diet?
chownah

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David N. Snyder
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:32 pm

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Ben
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ben » Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:27 pm

Gore will be a fantastic advocate for plant-based diets.
I wish him well with his culinary adventures.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Anagarika
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Anagarika » Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:36 pm

I'm with Ben on this one. I've gone to a sole plant based diet, and have cut weight, have more energy, no lethargy from food consumption, and I'm guessing my blood pressure is lower. I just feel better, and do not miss animal meat at all; in fact, when I see a photo of a steak, I feel a bit sick and think of the poor cow or steer that was tortured and then killed before being cut up to make the steak. In the US, we treat our food animals so cruelly that I could no longer be part of this chain of cruel commerce.

I'm also observing 8 precepts each day, and while it can be challenging, the benefits of this lifestyle vs what I was doing five years ago are significant. I may add that I am over age 50, and feel that 8 precepts and a vegetarian diet are perhaps significantly easier in middle age than it would have been at age 25.

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greenjuice
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby greenjuice » Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:55 pm

Manas, you can get enough protein without meat. I'm not too bukled up, but I do work out, and I'm fairly bigger and stronger then the average person. My diet is very simple, my main foods are whole-grain wheat flatbread and legumes- lentils and beans, from animal products I eat an egg, two or three a month, and drink a glass of milk or two a week. Besides that I eat only cereals (millet, rice, etc.), veggies and fruit, and I get enough protein for working out.

Also, my advice is to shun the gym. Exercise at home- squats, back extensions, twisting sit-ups, push-ups, pull-ups and the deadlift can all be done at home, they they exercise all the muscles, and are enough for everyone that is not a bodybuilder. If someone doesn't want to buy a home pull-up bar, he can use pretty much any park, also if one doesn't want to buy weights he can deadlift large stones he finds while out for a walk/run, but if someone can't or won't do those alternatives either- the pull-up and deadlift can be replaced with good-mornings, inverted row and elevated-feet inverted row, which can be done at homea. Also shun the gym workout program. Exercise every other or third day, and also make long pauses, e.g. work out for a couple of months, and then pause a month. Exercise hard (slow moves, no muscle rest in a series), use proper form (this is also a mindfulness exercise :D ), sleep enough and eat enough, and you can not only stop being thin, but also get reasonably big and strong.

K.Dhamma
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby K.Dhamma » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:39 pm

I would not consider myself vegetarian. I do the ascetic practice of only eating once a day. I want to become vegetarian, and I actually do pretty good in reducing the amount of meat in my meals. Lately I have removed red meat from my meals almost exclusively. However, I find myself becoming hypoglycemic and very "drained" if I go 2-3 days without meat. So, I slowed down and I now eat very modest with meat. I have yet to give up milk and other product, but I always look back to "Rome wasn't built in a day." So, I basically take it on a day to day/meal to meal basis. One step at a time. I think that the suffering from mega farms and the such that is put onto other beings just for the consumption of meat is a treatorous road to travel for a farmer doing it. I do have a couple questions though.

What about eggs? Are unfertilized free range eggs ok to consume for protein?
Also, does anyone know a good website to go to for maybe nutritional information for someone wanting to become a strict vegetarian? I would love to do it, but I haven't found a good website with information pertaining to nutritional information when switching from meat-to-veg diets. Any help is appreciated.

Just a side note. I found that the one thing that changed my mind in the beginning about meat eating is when we are re-incarnated, just remember....you might have been that cow at some time...so does that make you a cannibal? :P Food for Though (pun intended ;) )
"Remember you dont meditate to get anything, but to get rid of things. We do it, not with desire, but with letting go. If you want anything, you wont find it." - Ajahn Chah

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David N. Snyder
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:08 pm

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K.Dhamma
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby K.Dhamma » Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:14 pm

many thanks :)
"Remember you dont meditate to get anything, but to get rid of things. We do it, not with desire, but with letting go. If you want anything, you wont find it." - Ajahn Chah


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