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Mindfulness or Mindlessness: Sati Explained in 30 Minutes - Dhamma Wheel

Mindfulness or Mindlessness: Sati Explained in 30 Minutes

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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Anagarika
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Mindfulness or Mindlessness: Sati Explained in 30 Minutes

Postby Anagarika » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:35 pm


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Re: Mindfulness or Mindlessness: Sati Explained in 30 Minute

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:34 pm


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Re: Mindfulness or Mindlessness: Sati Explained in 30 Minute

Postby m0rl0ck » Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:11 pm

Just a thought from his intro comparing buddhism and depression, if you give up hope you get hopelessness and maybe depression, but if you then give up hopelessness you may end up with a happy buddhist. Its all about what you are willing to surrender.

My only thought about the rest of the talk is that, there is nothing so simple that an academic cant complicate it beyond any hope of practical approachability.
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

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Re: Mindfulness or Mindlessness: Sati Explained in 30 Minute

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:37 pm


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Re: Mindfulness or Mindlessness: Sati Explained in 30 Minute

Postby Anagarika » Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:37 pm


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Re: Mindfulness or Mindlessness: Sati Explained in 30 Minute

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:09 am


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Re: Mindfulness or Mindlessness: Sati Explained in 30 Minute

Postby Anagarika » Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:30 am


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Re: Mindfulness or Mindlessness: Sati Explained in 30 Minute

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:20 am

Ironically Prof Sharf's criticism appears to be that that Ven Mahasi is not following the Abhidhama and Commentaries closely enough. Ven Thanissaro appears to think that some teachers pay too much attention to Commentaries...

In either case it's just particular viewpoints of individuals...

:anjali:
Mike

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Re: Mindfulness or Mindlessness: Sati Explained in 30 Minute

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:59 am


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Re: Mindfulness or Mindlessness: Sati Explained in 30 Minute

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:28 am


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Re: Mindfulness or Mindlessness: Sati Explained in 30 Minute

Postby Anagarika » Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:35 am


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Re: Mindfulness or Mindlessness: Sati Explained in 30 Minute

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:13 am

Hi BuddhaSoup,

Again, I think it's ironic that you mention Ven Thanissaro in this context, since one of Prof Sharf's criticisms is that Buddhist Modernists ignore the Commentaries. This is certainly true of Ven Thanissaro but not of Ven Mahasi.

Furthermore, from listening to Ven Thanissaro's talks, I don't see much difference between his instructions, and what I've learned from Mahasi-style teachers.
E.g. see my comments:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 80#p174339
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 74#p202976
He makes a big deal of his particular interpretation of the exact meaning of sati, but if you look at the whole of the instructions from various teachers, the differences between him and others is more a matter of splitting hairs than real, at least as far as I can understand him. See the discussion here:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=13538

As for the Sharf talk, there are some interesting aspects, and his criticism of secular variants is fair enough, but he obviously has very little idea of what Mahasi-style practice involves.

By all means criticise the secular teachers who divorce meditation from Dhamma. However, I think it is a little silly to focus on largely imaginary hair-splitting differences between obviously knowledgeable and talented teachers such and Ven Thanissaro, Ven Mahasi, and various other monastic and lay teachers that we are fortunate to have access to.

:anjali:
Mike

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Re: Mindfulness or Mindlessness: Sati Explained in 30 Minute

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:20 am


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Re: Mindfulness or Mindlessness: Sati Explained in 30 Minute

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:31 am


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Re: Mindfulness or Mindlessness: Sati Explained in 30 Minute

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:59 am

Actually, some of the points about Buddhist Modernism are well known. That there was a reformation of Theravada in the 19th/20th C in Sri Lanka, Burma, and Thailand (the latter at the behest of King Monkut [Rama IV]) is well-recognised (and has been discussed here before). That practitioners in those countries invented/reinvented approaches to meditation based on various combinations of sutta/abhidhamma/commentary is also well recognised. The various strands of Thai Forest, as well as Burmese teachers are all part of this milieu...

:anjali:
Mike

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Re: Mindfulness or Mindlessness: Sati Explained in 30 Minute

Postby Anagarika » Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:53 pm


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Re: Mindfulness or Mindlessness: Sati Explained in 30 Minute

Postby Anagarika » Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:18 pm


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Re: Mindfulness or Mindlessness: Sati Explained in 30 Minute

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:17 pm


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Re: Mindfulness or Mindlessness: Sati Explained in 30 Minute

Postby Anagarika » Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:48 pm


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Re: Mindfulness or Mindlessness: Sati Explained in 30 Minute

Postby m0rl0ck » Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:54 pm

“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig


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