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Mistake for laity to focus on practices given to monastics? - Dhamma Wheel

Mistake for laity to focus on practices given to monastics?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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mettafuture
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Mistake for laity to focus on practices given to monastics?

Postby mettafuture » Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:37 pm

Many Western Buddhists try to blur the lines between the discourses given to monastics (ex. monks) and the laity, claiming that most of the teachings directed to monastics can be immediately put into practice by a lay follower. But is it a mistake to assume this, or to start with these practices? Shouldn't we first focus on the teachings that were specifically addressed to us?

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manas
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Re: Mistake for laity to focus on practices given to monasti

Postby manas » Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:56 pm

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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Kim OHara
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Re: Mistake for laity to focus on practices given to monasti

Postby Kim OHara » Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:46 pm


SarathW
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Re: Mistake for laity to focus on practices given to monasti

Postby SarathW » Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:12 am

Any advantages mental state improves the future!
I do not think this has to be done in any particular order.

See also :

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=110&start=1680#p272701
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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mettafuture
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Re: Mistake for laity to focus on practices given to monasti

Postby mettafuture » Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:51 am


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Mkoll
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Re: Mistake for laity to focus on practices given to monasti

Postby Mkoll » Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:50 am

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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mettafuture
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Re: Mistake for laity to focus on practices given to monasti

Postby mettafuture » Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:49 am


chownah
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Re: Mistake for laity to focus on practices given to monasti

Postby chownah » Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:59 pm

I think it is not a mistake for laity to focus on practices which are shown in the Suttas as being addresses to monastics.

I think there is a problem for some laity in that they do not have the ability to carry through on these teachings quickly enough to see benefits right away and then they get discouraged. This is an issue of readiness, not an issue of monk hood or not.

Everyone does best by finding what teachings resonate with their life and which bring results.......it is a mistake to not investigate some teaching just because it was addressed to monastics in the Suttas.

chownah

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Re: Mistake for laity to focus on practices given to monasti

Postby pulga » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:18 pm


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Thitadhammo
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Re: Mistake for laity to focus on practices given to monasti

Postby Thitadhammo » Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:02 pm

Fritz Schaefer (10.05.1923 – 17.10.2012) wrote a book called "The Buddha did not only teach for monks and nuns" - "Der Buddha sprach nicht nur für Mönche und Nonnen" wherein he collected most of the discourses held for laypeople, illustrating a realistic and gradual approach to Dhamma practice for those living in the house.



Hardcover, 880 pages
Publisher: Kristkeitz Werner; 2., vollst. überarb. A. edition (May 1, 2002)
Language: German
ISBN-10: 3921508800
ISBN-13: 978-3921508800
Product Dimensions: 10.2 x 7.1 x 2 inches
Shipping Weight: 3.4 pounds
Bodhi Vihara in Freising, Germany
http://bodhi-vihara.org

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bodom
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Re: Mistake for laity to focus on practices given to monasti

Postby bodom » Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:25 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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mettafuture
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Re: Mistake for laity to focus on practices given to monasti

Postby mettafuture » Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:36 pm


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Re: Mistake for laity to focus on practices given to monasti

Postby dhammapal » Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:16 am







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mettafuture
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Re: Mistake for laity to focus on practices given to monasti

Postby mettafuture » Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:43 am

Would it be fair to say that stream-entry is the minimum goal for a practicing Buddhist?

To attain stream-entry, 3 fetters must be eliminated:
1) Identity view
2) Uncertainty regarding practice
3) Attachment to external rituals

From what I've read and learned from my own practice, contemplating the elements raises awareness of the 5 aggregates and how they interconnect with the surrounding world, which in turn counters identity view.

Investigating and practicing the Buddha's teachings, and/or recollecting the qualities of the Buddha, the Dhamma, and the Sangha (anussati), counters uncertainty.

And maintaining focus on Buddha-dhamma by way of the Five Precepts, and not letting outside philosophies muddle your practice, eliminates the 3rd fetter.

Is this, essentially, the essence of "bare minimum" lay Buddhist practice?

Edit: Removed " and monastic community" from third to last sentence to fix bad grammar.
Last edited by mettafuture on Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kim OHara
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Re: Mistake for laity to focus on practices given to monasti

Postby Kim OHara » Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:57 am


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Re: Mistake for laity to focus on practices given to monasti

Postby tsurezuregusa » Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:21 pm

Hello,

I neither believe it is a mistake nor do I believe it is a western thing.

If it increases the wholesome dhammas and decreases the unwholesome dhammas, how could it be a mistake? Do you think this blurring is decreasing the wholesome?

Even the old commentaries (atthakattha) explain on occassions that the term bhikkhu is meant to include the laity, the serious practioner. And then there is the Ledi Sayadaw. He can be credited with intensifying the practice of the laity. This expanded the role from simple merit-making to studying the teachings, especially the Abhidhamma, and practising meditation. He sayed, lay people could be monks of the world. And before him, there were the dark ages of meditation even among the monastics. For Ledi Sayadaw and his role see Erik Braun and expanding on this Ingrid Jordt's take on Burma's mass lay meditation movement. It is not a western thing.

Kind regards,
Florian

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Re: Mistake for laity to focus on practices given to monasti

Postby daverupa » Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:58 pm


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mettafuture
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Re: Mistake for laity to focus on practices given to monasti

Postby mettafuture » Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:09 pm



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