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How long? - Dhamma Wheel

How long?

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
flyingOx
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How long?

Postby flyingOx » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:03 pm

I have a loaded question to ask:
If someone commits a severe social taboo faux pas, how long does one have to both metaphorically and realistically submit in the prostrated position of the social masochist before one is truly accepted in such a highly religious group, or will such a person never be fully accepted in such a strict religious social structure where only seniority with robotic-like adherence to all socially acceptable expectations of absolute religious perfection is the only possible prerequisite of paying one’s dues in order to be treated with any kind of respect or perhaps even the slightest sense of human dignity?

How many lashings must one take or does it even matter? Will one ever truly be treated like one of the others or will one in such a predicament always be expected to submit from there on out?
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.

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genkaku
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Re: How long?

Postby genkaku » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:34 pm

Sounds to me as if "someone" would be well advised to forgive and accept and penetrate his or her own actions and not worry too much about what any revered religious society might think.

Even at the most superficial level, think it through: Let's suppose someone is a murderer. S/he was a murderer at the time of the action. From various standpoints, murder is not an activity to indulge ... and yet everyone must face the murders large and small s/he has committed. No one else can face or condone the act of murder on behalf of the murderer. It simply cannot be done, no matter how much consoling or profound or sweet talk there is. Likewise the act cannot, with accuracy, be condemned by another.

Any damnation or redemption that occurs must occur within the one who has or will commit the act. And it is within that one that the investigation must begin and continue until the matter is clearly resolved. It may take a lifetime or longer ... but I see no other sensible or realistic choice.

Just my two cents.
Smile just one smile




flyingOx
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Re: How long?

Postby flyingOx » Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:52 pm

One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.

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cooran
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Re: How long?

Postby cooran » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:02 pm

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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adosa
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Re: How long?

Postby adosa » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:08 pm

"To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas" - Dhammapada 183

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kc2dpt
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Re: How long?

Postby kc2dpt » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:35 pm

One who acts like a fool will always be treated as a fool.
As soon as one stops acting like a fool, one stops being treated as a fool.

I have seen people come to forums, act foolish, suffer the consequences, realize their error, stop acting foolishly, and quickly become a productive member of the forum. Really, it doesn't take much.
- Peter


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Prasadachitta
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Re: How long?

Postby Prasadachitta » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:45 pm

"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

flyingOx
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Re: How long?

Postby flyingOx » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:13 pm

One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.

flyingOx
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 4:08 pm

Re: How long?

Postby flyingOx » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:14 pm

One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.

flyingOx
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 4:08 pm

Re: How long?

Postby flyingOx » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:17 pm

One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.

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Ordinaryperson
Posts: 66
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Location: West

Re: How long?

Postby Ordinaryperson » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:18 am


Actively trying to destroy the Three Unwholesome Roots of Greed, Hatred and Ignorance
Greed is the greatest danger of them all

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genkaku
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Re: How long?

Postby genkaku » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:41 am

Flyingox -- What seems to be the problem? If you like Buddhism, then practice. If you don't, find something you do like and do that. How many straw men can anyone set up before they realize that straw men have no capacity to bring anyone peace?

Buddhism makes observations (The Four Noble Truths) and it makes suggestions based on those observations (The Eightfold Path). Observations and suggestions are offerings. They are not like some Vatican issuing edicts, oppressing or disapproving of transgressors, or waving some holy flag. Some people find the observations compelling because they seem to square up with experience. Some find them compelling enough to want to put the suggestions to some use.

While it is true that people can dither around -- sometimes for their whole lives -- trying to remake Buddhism in their own image and arguing philosophy and religion until the cows come home, still the fact remains that Buddhism is only as good as anyone consents to make it. Personally. Intimately.

But whether anyone consents or not, still the direction of Buddhism is probably best expressed in words attributed to Gautama: "It is not what others do and do not do that is my concern. It is what I do and do not do -- that is my concern."

So ... if you like chocolate, please have some. If you don't, try some ice cream. No need to complain about what you don't like when there are so many things you might enjoy.

FWIW
Smile just one smile




flyingOx
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Re: How long?

Postby flyingOx » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:54 am

One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.

flyingOx
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 4:08 pm

Re: How long?

Postby flyingOx » Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:06 am

One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.

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Ordinaryperson
Posts: 66
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Re: How long?

Postby Ordinaryperson » Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:19 am


Actively trying to destroy the Three Unwholesome Roots of Greed, Hatred and Ignorance
Greed is the greatest danger of them all

flyingOx
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 4:08 pm

Re: How long?

Postby flyingOx » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:25 am

One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.

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Jechbi
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Re: How long?

Postby Jechbi » Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:25 am


Individual
Posts: 1970
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Re: How long?

Postby Individual » Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:40 pm

The best things in life aren't things.


flyingOx
Posts: 143
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Re: How long?

Postby flyingOx » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:05 pm

One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.

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kc2dpt
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Re: How long?

Postby kc2dpt » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:02 pm

- Peter



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