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Why did Buddha say that he was not a human being? - Dhamma Wheel

Why did Buddha say that he was not a human being?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
SarathW
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Why did Buddha say that he was not a human being?

Postby SarathW » Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:40 am

Above question raised as a result of a previous posting

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=19474&p=272956#p272914
Based on that can I say:

A) Though you have a human body, you could be an Arahant, Deva or even an animal.
B) Can a animal with its animal body could be an Arahant, human or Deva? If not why?
C) Does that mean Arahant also some thing like Deva or human?


When answering above please also consider the fact that a person is questioned to verify that he/she is a human when s/he is ordained as a monk.
:juggling:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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tiltbillings
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Re: Why did Buddha say that he was not a human being?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:46 am

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=19474&p=272956#p272914

"The Buddha's refusal to identify himself as a human being relates to a point made throughout the Canon, that an awakened person cannot be defined in any way at all. On this point, see MN 72, SN 22.85, SN 22.86, and the article, "A Verb for Nirvana." Because a mind with clinging is "located" by its clinging, an awakened person takes no place in any world: this is why he/she is unsmeared by the world (loka), like the lotus unsmeared by water."

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manas
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Re: Why did Buddha say that he was not a human being?

Postby manas » Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:28 pm

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

Babadhari
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Re: Why did Buddha say that he was not a human being?

Postby Babadhari » Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:56 pm

am i correct in recalling that the Buddha himself said he was not to be worshipped as he was a mortal human being?

or from the context of Tiltbillings quote the Buddha just said he was not a god... :shrug:
Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion.
Aflame, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs ......

Seeing thus, the disciple of the Noble One grows disenchanted. SN 35.28

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seeker242
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Re: Why did Buddha say that he was not a human being?

Postby seeker242 » Sun Dec 29, 2013 2:06 pm

"Even so, Vaccha, any physical form...(Any feeling... Any perception... Any fabrication...Any consciousness), by which one describing the Tathagata would describe him: That the Tathagata has abandoned, its root destroyed, made like a palmyra stump, deprived of the conditions of development, not destined for future arising. Freed from the classification of form (feeling...perception...fabrication...consciousness), Vaccha, the Tathagata is deep, boundless, hard to fathom, like the sea.
~MN 72

If the Buddha classified himself as a human being, then he would not be "Freed from the classification of form, feeling... perception... fabrication... consciousness", since a "human being" is just a combination of "form, feeling, etc" and that's it.

Since the Buddha is now free "from the classification of form, feeling, etc.", he can't be classified as a "human being".

Babadhari
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Re: Why did Buddha say that he was not a human being?

Postby Babadhari » Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:52 pm

Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion.
Aflame, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs ......

Seeing thus, the disciple of the Noble One grows disenchanted. SN 35.28

binocular
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Re: Why did Buddha say that he was not a human being?

Postby binocular » Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:29 pm


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SDC
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Re: Why did Buddha say that he was not a human being?

Postby SDC » Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:25 pm



This sutta may help. Here he uses the analogy of the growth of a lotus flower to explain why he can no longer be called a human being. Although the flower is born in the water and grows in the water, it eventually rises above the water where it stands unsoiled by the water. The Buddha was born with the qualities of a human, grew up with the qualities of a human, but eventually rose above and beyond the reach of all human weakness.

EDIT - I see this sutta was addressed in the other thread, but perhaps it should be here as well.
Last edited by SDC on Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mkoll
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Re: Why did Buddha say that he was not a human being?

Postby Mkoll » Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:25 pm

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

SarathW
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Re: Why did Buddha say that he was not a human being?

Postby SarathW » Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:13 am

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

chownah
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Re: Why did Buddha say that he was not a human being?

Postby chownah » Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:09 pm

No one knows the content of the buddha's DNA and if he said he was not human then I believe him.......a better question to pursue is that if he was not human then what was he?
chownah

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manas
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Re: Why did Buddha say that he was not a human being?

Postby manas » Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:31 pm

Last edited by manas on Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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seeker242
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Re: Why did Buddha say that he was not a human being?

Postby seeker242 » Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:41 pm


chownah
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Re: Why did Buddha say that he was not a human being?

Postby chownah » Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:04 pm


binocular
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Re: Why did Buddha say that he was not a human being?

Postby binocular » Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:06 pm


chownah
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Re: Why did Buddha say that he was not a human being?

Postby chownah » Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:57 am

binocular,
Key word here: contents.
It is the contents that matters, not just having it.
chownah

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manas
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Re: Why did Buddha say that he was not a human being?

Postby manas » Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:07 am

Hey chownah,
this is on phone, so briefly, I was sincerely just trying to clarify things, sorry if I came across too bossily - I am just learning here too, all of us...
manas :anjali:
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

binocular
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Re: Why did Buddha say that he was not a human being?

Postby binocular » Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:39 am


chownah
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Re: Why did Buddha say that he was not a human being?

Postby chownah » Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:06 am

binocular,
The contents of the DNA is what matters.....not the mere fact that DNA is present.
chowman

binocular
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Re: Why did Buddha say that he was not a human being?

Postby binocular » Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:54 am

You mean guanine, adenine, thymine, and cytosine? Then there's no difference between an ape and the ... uh, I can't even use those two words in the same sentence ...


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