Buddhislm is Absurd - Dhamma Wheel

Buddhislm is Absurd

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
Posts: 580
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:59 am

Buddhislm is Absurd

Postby lojong1 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:18 am

Dr. Zakir Naik seems to be the preferred word on buddhism in the islamic world. The following is from the comparative religion section of his website

-- "(i) There is suffering and misery in life.
(ii) The cause of suffering and misery is desire.
(iii) Suffering and misery can be removed by removing desire.
(iv) Desire can be removed by following the Eight Fold Path.
This Philosophy of Buddhism is self-contradictory or self-defeating because the third truth says ‘suffering and misery can be removed by removing desire’ and the fourth truth says that 'desire can be removed by following the Eight Fold Path'.
Now, for any person to follow Buddhism he should first have the desire to follow the Four Noble Truths and the Eight Fold Path. The Third great Noble Truth says that desire should be removed. Once you remove desire, how can we follow the Fourth Noble truth i.e. follow the Eight Fold Path unless we have a desire to follow the Eight Fold Path. In short desire can only be removed by having a desire to follow the Eight Fold Path. If you do not follow the Eight Fold Path, desire cannot be removed. It is self contradicting as well as self-defeating to say that desire will only be removed by continuously having a desire."

I feel raped, infected, pregnant, robbed, beaten looked at wrong and tickled pink! This is a carefully crafted piece of evil that does not want to be correct.

Suggest ways to quickly challenge this argument. :smile:

Posts: 2205
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:57 am

Re: Buddhislm is Absurd

Postby Sylvester » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:33 am

Aah. The Unnabha Paradox. See SN 51.15.

User avatar
James the Giant
Posts: 792
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:41 am

Re: Buddhislm is Absurd

Postby James the Giant » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:43 am

Solved! Take THAT Dr Zakir Naik! Kapow!
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.

Posts: 580
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:59 am

Re: Buddhislm is Absurd

Postby lojong1 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:44 am

My child will be named Sylvester. I knew of that response but didn't know which sutta.

Posts: 580
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:59 am

Re: Buddhislm is Absurd

Postby lojong1 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:52 am

That is pretty freaking funny JtheG.

And miraculously self-opened on my desktop is 'Paradox of Becoming' which surely contains related material!

User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 4346
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Buddhislm is Absurd

Postby Kim OHara » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:33 am

User avatar
Sam Vara
Posts: 2127
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm

Re: Buddhislm is Absurd

Postby Sam Vara » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:41 am

"....and then Ajahn Chah said to me
'Actually, Dr. Naik's website isn't really bothering your mind at all. If you reflect on it, it's your mind that is going out to bother Dr. Naik's website, isn't it?'..."

User avatar
Spiny Norman
Posts: 4918
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Spam, wonderful spam

Re: Buddhislm is Absurd

Postby Spiny Norman » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:58 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

User avatar
Posts: 2251
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Buddhislm is Absurd

Postby manas » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:15 pm

Never mind that this Dr Naik has wrongly grasped the difference between the skillful use of desire to tread the Path, and the freedom from craving for sensuality, becoming and non-becoming experienced by the Arahant. Because in my experience, you could explain this to him, and then he would just find fault with something else about the Path.

He's a Muslim talking about Buddhism, did you expect a glowing appraisal?

'Forgive him, for he knows not what the heck he's talking about' :D

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

User avatar
Posts: 1959
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:51 pm

Re: Buddhislm is Absurd

Postby kirk5a » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:02 pm

In college, a philosophy professor expressed exactly the same objection to me. Too bad I didn't know how to respond at the time. I knew it was fishy reasoning, but I couldn't put my finger on why.
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
Posts: 10648
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Buddhislm is Absurd

Postby David N. Snyder » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:17 pm


Posts: 308
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:36 am

Re: Buddhislm is Absurd

Postby Gena1480 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:40 am

it is hard for Buddhist to understand
the four noble truth
let alone non Buddhist.

User avatar
Posts: 1160
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:51 am

Re: Buddhislm is Absurd

Postby m0rl0ck » Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:01 am


WOW, talk about glass houses.
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

User avatar
Posts: 667
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:02 am

Re: Buddhislm is Absurd

Postby Kusala » Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:05 am


"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:14 pm

Re: Buddhislm is Absurd

Postby hataribaba » Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:22 pm

Salam alaykum

Being a Muslim myself, I know 'modern' Muslim preachers and their techniques quite well. Dr Naik knows that he addresses mostly people with no knowledge of buddhism whatsoever. Oddly enough, Naik's audience is predominantly Muslim, so he preaches to converts as it were. His 'mission' may be to spread Islam and reach new audiences from other faiths, but what he actually does is mainly reinforce already well-established beliefs and faith among the Muslim community.

I'm glad that his remarks have led some of you to learn new things about your own spiritual system, but I really don't think he is worth getting annoyed about.

User avatar
Khalil Bodhi
Posts: 2206
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:32 pm
Location: NYC

Re: Buddhislm is Absurd

Postby Khalil Bodhi » Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:49 pm

Walaikum salaam! Thank you for your perspective on the issue and welcome to the forum.
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183

Uposatha Observance Club:
My Practice Blog:

User avatar
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:52 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Buddhislm is Absurd

Postby Taijitu » Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:05 pm

We are all complex paradoxes so it shouldn't be hard to work out a simple paradox.

Unfettered at last, a traveling monk,
I pass the old Zen barrier.
Mine is a traceless stream-and-cloud life,
Of these mountains, which shall be my home?
Manan (1591-1654)

User avatar
Posts: 169
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:22 am

Re: Buddhislm is Absurd

Postby PadmaPhala » Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:50 am

someone that doesn't see the 4 Noble Truths as self-evident...

maybe 4 is too difficult to comprehend, try with TriLaksana (Tri = 3).

User avatar
Posts: 789
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:32 am
Location: Earth

Re: Buddhislm is Absurd

Postby Sekha » Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:00 pm

That's the problem with philosophers.

“For those that are blind, the truth always remains crooked”
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

User avatar
Posts: 1925
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:07 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Buddhislm is Absurd

Postby BlackBird » Wed Jan 01, 2014 12:18 am

To the OP, the writer sees this as a contradiction only because he does not understand it. It's not a contradiction at all.

The Buddha mentions in the Suttas somewhere that it is by craving that craving comes to cease. In essence one has to employ craving to finally come to the realization that rids one of craving. I believe this is one of the reasons that the Buddha refers to the teachings as a raft, that even the teachings must be abandoned when one reaches the other shore, thus how much more so should other things be abandoned.

People have been trying to slander the Dhamma since the Buddha first got some renown, but no person in my mind has ever levelled a true and valid criticism against it, criticisms of the true Dhamma only arise from misunderstanding or from malice. But the Dhamma will always stand up to a few knocks because as the Buddha states: It is free of patchwork.

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

Return to “Lounge”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine