Eradicating sex drive

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
User avatar
manas
Posts: 2678
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Eradicating sex drive

Post by manas »

Regarding the original post...as I understand it:

if we wish to eradicate sex desire, we need to attain the third level of awakening, anagami;

if we wish to suppress sex desire, in such a way that we simply won't be troubled by it for a while, we need to master one or more of the jhanas;

But in the meantime, even without either of these, there is still a lot we can do in dealing with it in a skillful way. I think, though, that the idea of 'eradicating' it in the early stages of practice, is going to cause more stress than ease, because it just doesn't disappear that easily. Although over time, we can learn various skills that make it much easier to not be a slave to it, etc. But I would suggest a healthy dose of patience for those who want to 'eradicate' it totally.

:anjali:
Last edited by manas on Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
User avatar
Mkoll
Posts: 6594
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:55 pm
Location: USA

Re: Eradicating sex drive

Post by Mkoll »

Dear friends,

As manas said, focusing on the "eradication" of sexual desire will probably cause more stress than it removes. The anāgāmi has not only eradicated sexual desire, but all desire for the five senses. This is no mean feat. And it tells me that sexual desire is to be eradicated along with sensual desire in all of its myriad manifestations. So it's probably not a good idea to focus exclusively on sexual desire.

:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Strive4Karuna
Posts: 318
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:38 am

Re: Eradicating sex drive

Post by Strive4Karuna »

From my experience,

Seeing, accepting, not judging, not acting on it based on right intention to overcome sex drive

when you have done this, you need to do something to counter the lust, even if you have stopped the lust from growing in you, it is still there so you have to scoop it out. Meditate on the 32 parts of the body, how dirty our bodies actually are and it is our ignorance which is the reason why we see attraction in the human body which is like an animals. Meditation on loving kindness, compassion, equanimity, altruistic joy will help you control your lust a lot better. When you genuinely love someone, the love and care you have for that person helps you to see that person as a human first, your brother or sister in the world and how you can be of benefit to them instead of only seeing that person as an object of your gain and desire.
User avatar
manas
Posts: 2678
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Eradicating sex drive

Post by manas »

karuna wrote:how dirty our bodies actually are and it is our ignorance which is the reason why we see attraction in the human body which is like an animals.
I used to think like that, but lately I question whether seeing our body as 'dirty' is a very healthy way to live. Sure, I am not attracted to a sexual partner's internal organs, but only to how they appear on the outside. But so what? Anyway, to see it as filth is one perspective, but I prefer my current one: it is the most wonderful biological machine on Earth, worth taking good care of, and quite miraculous in how it functions, heals itself, etc. While the 'insides' are not conducive to sexual arousal, I still don't see them as 'dirty', but increasingly nowadays, as fascinating. If you look closely at the bones of the skeleton one by one, you can see that this 'inner structure' we have is actually beautiful, in it's own way.

manas

:anjali:
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
User avatar
fivebells
Posts: 416
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:52 am

Re: Eradicating sex drive

Post by fivebells »

They're both accurate perspectives, and useful in some contexts. If you're having trouble settling down due to desire, the disgust perspective is useful. If you're trying to brighten the mind, the wonder perspective is useful.
User avatar
manas
Posts: 2678
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Eradicating sex drive

Post by manas »

fivebells wrote:They're both accurate perspectives, and useful in some contexts. If you're having trouble settling down due to desire, the disgust perspective is useful. If you're trying to brighten the mind, the wonder perspective is useful.
You make a good point there. And on that note, I think that an individual who finds it difficult to feel warm and glowing metta for themselves, should not do asubha bhavana, or they risk cultivating aversion rather than disenchantment. What do others think? I seem to recall that in the VM there was something written about this...?
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
rgb1
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:42 pm

Re: Eradicating sex drive

Post by rgb1 »

Hey, how about instead of identifying with the desire and pushing it away or chasing after some "relief", you just observe it mindfully? When the desire arises, just allow it to come up and observe it, get to know the desire and see it for what is it. You can do this through vipassana/insight meditation. To learn the technique as practiced in the Mahasi Sayadaw tradition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpzurcpIDeY

Hope this is helpful,
Be well.
User avatar
Alex123
Posts: 4035
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:32 pm

Re: Eradicating sex drive

Post by Alex123 »

Anagarika wrote:Isn't it fundamental to practice that we work to release ourselves from the sense fetters that tie us to samsara?
Yes, you are right. From the point of view of maggaphala, sex along with other indulgences in 5 sense world needs to be let go off.

Indulgence in kama is not noble eightfold path.

Buddhist Sexual Ethics - A Rejoinder

Buddhism means many things to many people. To some, it offers wise and compassionate advice on how to lessen the suffering of modern lay life. To others, it is the path to Enlightenment which ends all suffering. Mr Higgins' article in the November issue of Bodhi Leaf refers to the former kind of Buddhism only. The Buddhism which leads to Enlightenment is somewhat different, as we will now show.
The place of sexuality in Buddhism is made manifestly clear in the Buddha's First Sermon in which the Great Teacher proclaimed the famous Middle Way:

"One should not pursue sensual pleasure (KÂMA-SUKHA), which is low vulgar, coarse, ignoble and unbeneficial; and one should not pursue self-mortification, which is painful, ignoble and unbeneficial. So it was said. And with reference to what was this said? The pursuit of the enjoyment of one whose pleasure is linked to sensual desire - low, vulgar, coarse, ignoble and unbeneficial - is a state beset by suffering, vexation, despair and fever, and it is the wrong way. Disengage from the pursuit of the enjoyment of one whose pleasure is linked to sensual desire - low, vulgar, coarse, ignoble and unbeneficial - is a state without suffering, vexation despair and fever, and it is the right way. The pursuit of self-mortification… is the wrong way. Disengagement from the pursuit of self-mortification… is the right way… The Middle Way discovered by the Tathàgata avoids both these extremes… it leads… to Nibbàna."

(Ven Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation of the Buddha's words in The Middle Length Discourses of the Buddha, p.1080f)

The Buddha's declaration that the pursuit of sensual pleasures, which include sex, lies outside the Middle Way is reinforced many times in the Suttapitaka. For example, in the Simile of the Quail, Sutta No 66 of the Majjhima Nikàya, the Buddha declares:

"Now, Udàyin, the pleasure and joy that arises dependent on these five cords of sensual pleasure are called sensual pleasures - a filthy pleasure, a coarse pleasure, an ignoble pleasure. I say of this kind of pleasure that it should not be pursued, that it should not be developed, that it should not be cultivated, that it should be feared… (whereas the pleasure of the Four Jhànas). This is called the bliss of renunciation, the bliss of enlightenment. I say of this kind of pleasure that it should be pursued, that it should be developed, that it should be cultivated, that it should not be feared." (ibid p.557)

Even in the time of the Buddha, some misguided people went around saying that sexual practice was not an obstruction to Enlightenment. The Buddha rebuked them strongly with the well known simile of the snake, comparing their wrong grasp of the Teachings to a man who grasps a venomous snake by the tail, out of stupidity, and suffers accordingly:

"Misguided man, in many discourses have I not stated how obstructive things are obstructive, and how they are able to obstruct one who engages in them? I have stated how sensual pleasures provide little gratification, much suffering, and much despair, and how great is the danger in them. With the simile of skeleton… with the simile of the piece of meat… with the simile of the grasstorch… with the simile of the pit of coals… with the simile of the dream… with the simile of the borrowed goods… with the simile of the tree laden with fruit… with the simile of the slaughterhouse… with the simile of the sword stake… with the simile of the snake's head, I have stated how sensual pleasures provide little gratification, much suffering, and much despair, and how great is the danger in them. But you, misguided man, have misrepresented us by your wrong grasp and injured yourself and stored up much demerit; for this will lead to your harm and suffering for a long time." (The Buddha in the simile of the Snake; ibid p.225f)

Indeed, the Buddha taught that sexual practises not only lie outside the Middle Way, but also that they are part of craving (KÂMA-TANHA, the craving for sensual pleasure) described in the Second Noble Truth as the cause of suffering, they are attachments (KÂM' UPÂDÂNA, 'the attachment to sensual pleasure'), they are a hindrance to meditation (KÂMA-CCHANDA, the first of the 5 NIVARANA), they are defilement (KILESA) of the mind, they are a fetter obstructing liberation (the fourth fetter, SAMYOJANA, is KÂMARÂGA 'lust') and they have no part in the behaviour an Enlightened being is capable of).

The Buddha realised that such Teachings would hardly be received enthusiastically by most, for He said shortly after the Enlightenment:
"The world, however, is given to pleasure, delighted with pleasure, enchanted with pleasure. Truly, such beings will hardly understand the law of conditionality, the Dependent Origination. (PATICCA-SAMUPPÂDA) of everything; incomprehensible to them will be the end of all formations, the forsaking of every substratum of rebirth, the fading away of craving, detachment, extinction, Nibbàna." (Ven. Nànatiloka's translation in the Word of the Buddha, p.2)

But then, it is better to be true than to be popular.

Ven. Ajahn Chah, the teacher under whom we both trained for many years, similarly taught that sexual practises had to be given up if one aspired for Enlightenment. For example, I remember a Westerner coming to see Ajahn Chah once and saying that he was sexually active but without being attached to the sex. Ajahn Chah completely ridiculed the statement as an impossibility, saying something like "Bah! that's like saying there can be salt which isn't salty!" Ajahn Chah taught all who came to him, monastic and lay, that sexual desire is KILESA (defilement of the mind), it is a hindrance to success in meditation and an obstruction to Enlightenment. He taught that sexual activity should be abandoned if one wants to end suffering. He would never speak in praise of sex. He would only speak in praise of letting go.

by Ajahn Brahmavamso
and
Ajahn Nanadhammo
http://www.buddhanet.net/rejoiner.htm
User avatar
Alex123
Posts: 4035
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:32 pm

Re: Eradicating sex drive

Post by Alex123 »

manas wrote:I don't think it's a healthy attitude to take, this notion of wanting to 'eradicate' sex drive. In fact, it can lead to neuroses, and as we have seen with many of the Churches; the twisting of a natural urge into something sinister and harmful, due to it's constant suppression.
The fetter should be understood, weakened, and eventually eliminated... with wisdom. This is important.
manas wrote: I think that an individual who finds it difficult to feel warm and glowing metta for themselves, should not do asubha bhavana, or they risk cultivating aversion rather than disenchantment. What do others think?

Asubha must be practiced to remove lust, never to develop aversion.
Post Reply