Is snuff an intoxicant?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
User avatar
Mkoll
Posts: 6594
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:55 pm
Location: USA

Re: Is snuff an intoxicant?

Post by Mkoll »

villkorkarma wrote:Mkoll Alright :) thank you, but I dont still not understand why I should quit. Can I do something horrible because I use snuff?
Dear villkorkarma,

If you stop using snuff for a few days, you will likely start experiencing withdrawal symptoms (copied from US gov't Medline Plus website):

An intense craving for nicotine
Anxiety
Depression
Drowsiness or trouble sleeping, as well as bad dreams and nightmares
Feeling tense, restless, or frustrated
Headaches
Increased appetite and weight gain
Problems concentrating

Withdrawal symptoms are the sign that your body and brain have become dependent upon nicotine. They've become so used to it that when they stop getting nicotine, you experience withdrawal symptoms. But they do go away if you quit. Like I said, there are programs out there to help you quit like using nicotine patches if you don't want to quit cold turkey.

I began using drugs thinking: "This is great!" and experiencing lots of pleasure. As time went on, it became less and less pleasurable and more like a routine. Towards the end, it was like: "This really isn't worth it and but I'm going to keep doing it anyways...". I tried and failed to quit many times.

I finally quit using drugs because one day I woke up to how negative an effect that they were having on me. Enough was enough. And this was before I became a Buddhist or knew about the five precepts. Now that I know of the five precepts and Buddhism, I'm even happier that I stopped using intoxicants!

I had to get to that low of a point where I truly said to myself: "Enough is enough." Maybe you haven't gotten to that low point. Maybe you never will. I only share my experience to say: don't go there.

In the end, doing or not doing drugs is up to you.

:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Feathers
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:14 pm

Re: Is snuff an intoxicant?

Post by Feathers »

The nice thing about the Buddhist precepts (as I understand it) is that while they overlap with morality (e.g. don't murder, don't steal) they are really more a handbook or advice for how to develop on the path, how to lead a better spiritual life. So you can drink, smoke, take snuff without it being morally terrible (as long as you're not committing harm to others while under the influence I guess). But the precepts are probably telling you (us, actually, I'm currently seeing in the New Year with a midori and lemonade :p) that it can/will hinder us on the path.
User avatar
Mkoll
Posts: 6594
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:55 pm
Location: USA

Re: Is snuff an intoxicant?

Post by Mkoll »

Dear friends,

By following the precepts including abandoning the use of intoxicants, you give limitless freedom from danger, animosity, and oppression to limitless beings. And by doing so, you gain a share of that of that freedom and thus merit for future lives.
"Monks, there are these eight rewards of merit, rewards of skillfulness, nourishments of happiness, celestial, resulting in happiness, leading to heaven, leading to what is desirable, pleasurable, & appealing, to welfare & happiness. Which eight?

"There is the case where a disciple of the noble ones has gone to the Buddha for refuge. This is the first reward of merit, reward of skillfulness, nourishment of happiness, celestial, resulting in happiness, leading to heaven, leading to what is desirable, pleasurable, & appealing; to welfare & to happiness.

"Furthermore, the disciple of the noble ones has gone to the Dhamma for refuge. This is the second reward of merit...

"Furthermore, the disciple of the noble ones has gone to the Sangha for refuge. This is the third reward of merit...

"Now, there are these five gifts, five great gifts — original, long-standing, traditional, ancient, unadulterated, unadulterated from the beginning — that are not open to suspicion, will never be open to suspicion, and are unfaulted by knowledgeable contemplatives & brahmans. Which five?

"There is the case where a disciple of the noble ones, abandoning the taking of life, abstains from taking life. In doing so, he gives freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings. In giving freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings, he gains a share in limitless freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, and freedom from oppression. This is the first gift, the first great gift — original, long-standing, traditional, ancient, unadulterated, unadulterated from the beginning — that is not open to suspicion, will never be open to suspicion, and is unfaulted by knowledgeable contemplatives & brahmans. And this is the fourth reward of merit...

"Furthermore, abandoning taking what is not given (stealing), the disciple of the noble ones abstains from taking what is not given. In doing so, he gives freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings. In giving freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings, he gains a share in limitless freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, and freedom from oppression. This is the second gift, the second great gift... and this is the fifth reward of merit...

"Furthermore, abandoning illicit sex, the disciple of the noble ones abstains from illicit sex. In doing so, he gives freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings. In giving freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings, he gains a share in limitless freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, and freedom from oppression. This is the third gift, the third great gift... and this is the sixth reward of merit...

"Furthermore, abandoning lying, the disciple of the noble ones abstains from lying. In doing so, he gives freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings. In giving freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings, he gains a share in limitless freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, and freedom from oppression. This is the fourth gift, the fourth great gift... and this is the seventh reward of merit...

"Furthermore, abandoning the use of intoxicants, the disciple of the noble ones abstains from taking intoxicants. In doing so, he gives freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings. In giving freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings, he gains a share in limitless freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, and freedom from oppression. This is the fifth gift, the fifth great gift — original, long-standing, traditional, ancient, unadulterated, unadulterated from the beginning — that is not open to suspicion, will never be open to suspicion, and is unfaulted by knowledgeable contemplatives & brahmans. And this is the eighth reward of merit, reward of skillfulness, nourishment of happiness, celestial, resulting in happiness, leading to heaven, leading to what is desirable, pleasurable, & appealing; to welfare & to happiness.
-AN 8.39
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
villkorkarma
Posts: 506
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:43 pm

Re: Is snuff an intoxicant?

Post by villkorkarma »

[quote="Mkoll"]Dear friends,

By following the precepts including abandoning the use of intoxicants, you give limitless freedom from danger, animosity, and oppression to limitless beings. And by doing so, you gain a share of that of that freedom and thus merit for future lives. [{quote="Mkoll"]

i dont mean to be meen but if you didnt stop with snuff it was because its was to good? did you stop with it because its causes you bad kamma and karma ofcourse? not heave but still some karma.
Limitless freedom from danger , animosity and oppression.. seems good. But does it work?
merit for future lives? gain a share? how happy are you when you dont use easy intoxicants of typ of snuff and alcohol? yea yea time will tell...

"
one suffer because one hasnt existed long : )
Babadhari
Posts: 459
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:23 pm
Location: lalita ghat

Re: Is snuff an intoxicant?

Post by Babadhari »

Mkoll wrote:
villkorkarma wrote:Mkoll Alright :) thank you, but I dont still not understand why I should quit. Can I do something horrible because I use snuff?


I had to get to that low of a point where I truly said to myself: "Enough is enough." Maybe you haven't gotten to that low point. Maybe you never will. I only share my experience to say: don't go there.

In the end, doing or not doing drugs is up to you.

:anjali:

well put Mkoll, and thanks for sharing with us

Villkorkarma, it is better not to be a slave to anything , that is what addiction is. you can learn much about yourself using the vipassana technique you learned to overcome craving.
best of luck :namaste:
kitz
Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion.
Aflame, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs ......

Seeing thus, the disciple of the Noble One grows disenchanted. SN 35.28
villkorkarma
Posts: 506
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:43 pm

Re: Is snuff an intoxicant?

Post by villkorkarma »

Why will I stop with snuff?
one suffer because one hasnt existed long : )
User avatar
Mkoll
Posts: 6594
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:55 pm
Location: USA

Re: Is snuff an intoxicant?

Post by Mkoll »

Dear villkorkarma,

Like I said, I stopped using drugs before I became a Buddhist, before I put my faith in kamma or merit or the Buddha's enlightenment or anything Buddhist. At that point, I had faith in no religion or teaching. It was purely an act of self-preservation.

Have you ever tried to quit snuff since you started using it, villkorkarma? What's the longest time you've gone without it?

:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
villkorkarma
Posts: 506
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:43 pm

Re: Is snuff an intoxicant?

Post by villkorkarma »

Mkoll wrote:Dear villkorkarma,

Like I said, I stopped using drugs before I became a Buddhist, before I put my faith in kamma or merit or the Buddha's enlightenment or anything Buddhist. At that point, I had faith in no religion or teaching. It was purely an act of self-preservation.

Have you ever tried to quit snuff since you started using it, villkorkarma? What's the longest time you've gone without it?

:anjali:
acutally i have stopped with it a couple of times. it was after i readed about kannabalism and drugsand that was 14 Days ago. I have felt very bad the last 5 years. I started with my alltimeusing of snuff 2 years ago, not even a minute without snuff and it have helped me now. now i feel very good when i compare it of how i have felt and that because it seems that the hindrances has gone away. what hindrances? i mean missions. what missions? i mean like say something personally in front of people that i Think will react with anger or just beeing social with angry people.
one suffer because one hasnt existed long : )
User avatar
Mkoll
Posts: 6594
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:55 pm
Location: USA

Re: Is snuff an intoxicant?

Post by Mkoll »

Dear villkorkarma,

Are you saying that you feel better when you're not using snuff? Are you saying that there is less anger arising when interacting with others when you're not using snuff?

:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
villkorkarma
Posts: 506
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:43 pm

Re: Is snuff an intoxicant?

Post by villkorkarma »

No.
No.
one suffer because one hasnt existed long : )
villkorkarma
Posts: 506
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:43 pm

Re: Is snuff an intoxicant?

Post by villkorkarma »

Why do you not want to use snuff? I understand if you dont need It beacuse you feel so good, ?
one suffer because one hasnt existed long : )
User avatar
Mkoll
Posts: 6594
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:55 pm
Location: USA

Re: Is snuff an intoxicant?

Post by Mkoll »

Dear villkorkarma,

I'm not sure what your situation is. I don't understand your last post. So I'm asking questions for clarification. If you could explain your situation clearly and in detail, we would be able to communicate better.

Are you saying you started using snuff two years ago, you've stopped using a couple of times, you've recently stopped using for 14 days, and now you feel bad? Why did you feel bad the past five years?

Why does anyone start using drugs in the first place? I'd say: social pressure and/or dissatisfaction with some aspect(s) of their life. Would a happy and content person have an urge to use drugs? No, because there would be no reason for it.

:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
villkorkarma
Posts: 506
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:43 pm

Re: Is snuff an intoxicant?

Post by villkorkarma »

Okey but do you mean that you are happy?

I start snuffusing 2 years ago. no just a few moments/minutes I held up with snuff in these 14 Days. Can you please see my other thread about the 5 percepts?
one suffer because one hasnt existed long : )
User avatar
Mkoll
Posts: 6594
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:55 pm
Location: USA

Re: Is snuff an intoxicant?

Post by Mkoll »

Dear villkorkarma,

I would say only arahants are completely "happy" in that they have no more work to do.

But semantics aside, on a conventional level I am happy in this regard. Why? I am happy because I'm not using destructive intoxicants. I've tamed my mind to this extent. I'm happy because I'm fulfilling the fifth precept and the fourth factor of stream-entry, below. My virtue is pure in this regard. It makes me happy to think about it.
He is endowed with virtues that are appealing to the noble ones: untorn, unbroken, unspotted, unsplattered, liberating, praised by the wise, untarnished, leading to concentration.
-AN 10.92

Are you saying you've only gone a few minutes without snuff in the past 14 days? I'll ask again, and please answer this question directly so I can get a clearer picture of what's going on: what is the longest time you've gone without snuff (excluding sleeping) since you started using it two years ago?

:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
villkorkarma
Posts: 506
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:43 pm

Re: Is snuff an intoxicant?

Post by villkorkarma »

Mkoll wrote:Dear villkorkarma,

I would say only arahants are completely "happy" in that they have no more work to do.

But semantics aside, on a conventional level I am happy in this regard. Why? I am happy because I'm not using destructive intoxicants. I've tamed my mind to this extent. I'm happy because I'm fulfilling the fifth precept and the fourth factor of stream-entry, below. My virtue is pure in this regard. It makes me happy to think about it.
He is endowed with virtues that are appealing to the noble ones: untorn, unbroken, unspotted, unsplattered, liberating, praised by the wise, untarnished, leading to concentration.
-AN 10.92

Are you saying you've only gone a few minutes without snuff in the past 14 days? Yes thats correct Mkoll I'll ask again, and please answer this question directly so I can get a clearer picture of what's going on: what is the longest time you've gone without snuff (excluding sleeping) since you started using it two years ago? One and a half day maybe.


:anjali:
Why are you asking these questions Mkoll? By the way, I feel like a sort of an Arahant. :anjali: Its not impossible that I am an Arahant.
one suffer because one hasnt existed long : )
Post Reply