Did the Buddha teach us to dwell only on the present?

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lyndon taylor
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Re: Did the Buddha teach us to dwell only in the present?

Post by lyndon taylor »

That's a good quote, but "placeing expections on the future" is quite different from simple planning for the future. And planning for the future does not HAVE to mean dwelling on the future.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

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Mindstar
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Re: Did the Buddha teach us to dwell only in the present?

Post by Mindstar »

From MN133:

“Let not a person revive the past

Or on the future build his hopes;

For the past has been left behind

And the future has not been reached.

Instead with insight let him see

Each presently arisen state;

Let him know that and be sure of it,

Invincibly, unshakeably.

Today the effort must be made;

Tomorrow Death may come, who knows?

No bargain with Mortality

Can keep him and his hordes away.

But one who dwells thus ardently,

Relentlessly, by day, by night—

It is he, the Peaceful Sage has said,

Who has had a single excellent night.”

Higher than lordship over all earth,
Higher than sojourning in heavens supreme,
Higher than empire over all the worlds,
Is Fruit of Entrance to the Dhamma Stream.
—Dhammapada
starter
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Re: Did the Buddha teach us to dwell only in the present?

Post by starter »

The Buddha answered Jatukaṇṇī’s Questions:

“Having heard of a hero who has no desire for pleasure, I came to ask
that desireless one who is beyond the flood, please speak of the state of
peace, as it really is, Gracious One, please tell me this. The Gracious
One moves about having vanquished sense desires, as the splendid sun
vanquishes the earth with its splendour. To me of little wisdom, One of
Great Wisdom, explain the Teaching so that I may know the complete
giving up of birth and old age here.”

“Remove the greed for sense pleasures, having seen there is safety in
renunciation; let there be nothing found in you that has been taken up
or is still to be put down. You should erase that (greed) which is past, and
have nothing (no greed) for the future, if you take up nothing (no greed) in the present you will live peacefully. For one altogether without greed for mind and body, O brahmin, no pollutants are found whereby he can come under
Death’s control.” [The Way to the Beyond 11: Jatukaṇṇī’s Questions http://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/E ... Beyond.pdf]

Metta to all!
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Kumara
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Re: Did the Buddha teach us to dwell only in the present?

Post by Kumara »

I've been interested in this too. I believe most of the confusion started with unsatisfactory translations of the opening line of the Bhaddekaratta verse. Here alone we find 3 versions;
  • Let one not trace back the past
  • Let not a person revive the past
  • You shouldn't chase after the past
Let me dissect and explain the Pali:
Atītaṁ nānvāgameyya.
- atītaṁ = past
- nānvāgameyya = na anu + āgameti + eyya
- - na = not
- - anu = (prefix) along, repeatedly, continually
- - āgameti = wait, stay, wait for, welcome, expect
- - eyya = (optative conjugation) would

So the sutta, in referring to the spiritual practitioner who is attentive of the present, says that he “would not dwell on the past”.

What does it mean by “dwell on the past”? The Bhaddekaratta suttas explain that it means getting carried away with the delight of thoughts about the past. There’s a fine—but important—line between that and remembering past events without being lost in it.

What dhammapal posted (http://www.dhammawheel.com/posting.php? ... 1#pr256138) is very relevant: "past, future, or present... is to be seen as it actually is". When we see the past as it is, we see that it's just a memory, a mental activity. Same goes for the future and present. You can't get lost in it that way. You wouldn't even want to.

In suttas, we find occasions, before and after his awakening, where the Buddha recollected the past about himself and others. In fact, he recalled his countless past lives. We wouldn’t take that to mean that the Buddha was dwelling on the past, and that he wasn’t practising what he preached, would we?
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Re: Did the Buddha teach us to dwell only on the present?

Post by starter »

Merry Christmas!

I've to admit that I was a bit confused about whether one should intend/plan for the future (dwell on the future) after reading the following sutta.

SAṂYUTTA NIKAYA 12
CONNECTED DISCOURSES ON CAUSATION
40. Volition (3)

At Savatth. “Bhikkhus, what one intends, and what one plans, and whatever one has a tendency towards: this becomes a basis for the maintenance of consciousness. When there is a basis, there is a support for the establishing of consciousness. When consciousness is established and has come to growth, there is inclination. When there is inclination, there is coming and going. When there is coming and going, there is passing away and being reborn. When there is passing away and being reborn, future birth, aging-and-death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure, and despair come to be. Such is the origin of this whole mass of suffering.

“If, bhikkhus, one does not intend, and one does not plan, but one still has a tendency towards something, this becomes a basis for the maintenance of consciousness. When there is a basis, there is a support for the establishing of consciousness…. Such is the origin of this whole mass of suffering.

“But, bhikkhus, when one does not intend, and one does not plan, and one does not have a tendency towards anything, no basis exists for the maintenance of consciousness. When there is no basis, there is no support for the establishing of consciousness. When consciousness is unestablished and does not come to growth, there is no inclination. When there is no inclination, there is no coming and going. When there is no coming and going, there is no passing away and being reborn. When there is no passing away and being reborn, future birth, aging-and-death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure, and despair cease. Such is the cessation of this whole mass of suffering.”

I suppose this teaching is describing the state of living arahants who have already fulfilled the training, and explain why they won't have more continued existence. I think that the trainers should intend and plan, to have right resolve/thinking and right effort/mindfulness to perfect the sila aggregate, to suppress the five hindrances and establish samadhi, and then to attain wisdom/insight (true knowledge of 4NT). The same applies to desire, as taught in the following sutta by Ven. Ananda:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

SN 51.15 Brahmana Sutta

".... Brahman, there is the case where a monk develops the base of power endowed with concentration founded on desire & the fabrications of exertion. He develops the base of power endowed with concentration founded on persistence... concentration founded on intent... concentration founded on discrimination & the fabrications of exertion. This, Brahman, is the path, this is the practice for the abandoning of that desire."

"If that's so, Master Ananda, then it's an endless path, and not one with an end, for it's impossible that one could abandon desire by means of desire."

"In that case, brahman, let me question you on this matter. Answer as you see fit. What do you think: Didn't you first have desire, thinking, 'I'll go to the park,' and then when you reached the park, wasn't that particular desire allayed?" ...

"Didn't you first have the intent, thinking, 'I'll go to the park,' and then when you reached the park, wasn't that particular intent allayed?"

"Yes, sir." ...

"So it is with an arahant whose assavas are ended, who has reached fulfillment, done the task, laid down the burden, attained the true goal, totally destroyed the fetter of becoming, and who is released through right gnosis. Whatever desire he first had for the attainment of arahantship, on attaining arahantship that particular desire is allayed. Whatever persistence he first had for the attainment of arahantship, on attaining arahantship that particular persistence is allayed. Whatever intent he first had for the attainment of arahantship, on attaining arahantship that particular intent is allayed. Whatever discrimination he first had for the attainment of arahantship, on attaining arahantship that particular discrimination is allayed. So what do you think, brahman? Is this an endless path, or one with an end?"

Your input would be appreciated. Metta to all!
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Re: Did the Buddha teach us to dwell only on the present?

Post by Kumara »

starter wrote:I've to admit that I was a bit confused about whether one should intend/plan for the future (dwell on the future) after reading the following sutta.

SAṂYUTTA NIKAYA 12
CONNECTED DISCOURSES ON CAUSATION
40. Volition (3)

At Savatth. “Bhikkhus, what one intends, and what one plans, and whatever one has a tendency towards: this becomes a basis for the maintenance of consciousness. ...
I've just looked up the Pali, and found that what's translated above as "intends", "plans", and "has a tendency towards" are ceteti, pakappeti, and anuseti respectively.

From PTS's PED / Buddhadatta:
ceteti: to think, to reflect, to be of opinion / perceives; thinks
pakappeti: - / considers; designs; arranges; thinks over.
anuseti: (1) trs. to dwell on, harp on (an idea) 2. (of the idea) to obsess, to fill the mind persistently, to lie dormant & be continually cropping up. / lies dormant

So, they don't necessarily carry the nuances of the words BBodhi used.
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Re: Did the Buddha teach us to dwell only on the present?

Post by starter »

Hello Kumara,

Many thanks for the very helpful information. It's very nice to have Kalyāṇa-mittatā like you in this forum.

I understand now that this sutta as well as the relevant paragraphs of MN 19 has the following meaning:

"... what one ponders, what one considers ["dreams about"], and whatever one is obsessed with: this becomes a basis for the maintenance (inclination) of consciousness ..."

All the three words used here are synonyms. The Chinese Agama equivalent SA 361 supports the above understanding.

By the way, I wish a group of advanced Kalyāṇa-mittatā (such as you) who have good understanding of the suttas and good mastery of Pali, to double check the available translations of the important suttas (especially those lacking good translations), and make some changes/corrections based upon the discussion and consensus of the group. The group can make the best possible sutta "translations", with footnotes, and put them online, so that there'll be no copy right issue, and we'll have access to even better versions of the suttas online. That will be very helpful to our practice. Of course, it'll be lots of work.

Happy New Year to you and other Kalyāṇa-mittatā! Metta to all!

Starter

PS: SA 361
如是我聞。 一時。佛住舍衛國祇樹給 孤獨園。 爾時。世尊告諸比丘。若有思量.有妄想。則有使攀緣識住。有攀緣識住故。入於名色。入名色故。則有往來。有往來 故。則有生死。有生死故。則有未來世生.老.病.死.憂.悲.惱.苦。如是純大苦聚集。若不思量.無妄想。無使無攀緣識住。無攀緣識住故。不入名色。不入名色故。則無往來。無往來故。則無生死。無生死故。於未來世生.老.病.死.憂.悲.惱.苦滅。如是純大苦聚滅。 佛說 此經已。諸比丘聞佛所說。歡喜奉行。
Last edited by starter on Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kumara
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Check and correct available translations

Post by Kumara »

starter wrote:By the way, I wish a group of advanced Kalyāṇa-mittatā (such as you) who have good understanding of the suttas and good mastery of Pali, to double check the available translations of the important suttas (especially those lacking good translations), and make some changes/corrections based upon the discussion and consensus of the group. The group can make the best possible sutta "translations", with footnotes, and put them online, so that there'll be no copy right issue, and we'll have access to even better versions of the suttas online. That will be very helpful to our practice. Of course, it'll be lots of work.
Yup, a lot. And "the best" is subjective.

BBodhi and Ajahn T do translate very well. My knowledge of Pali isn't anywhere near theirs. Nonetheless, I can spot little quirks here and there. I've seen a few examples where their translations seriously contradict each other. In these cases, usually BBodhi is right. When it comes to suttas about the practice though, Ajahn T has a clear advantage over BBodhi, and so is able to convey the Pali better.

Occasionally, we'd find "corrections" here in DW. If you feel inspired to, you can collect them and perhaps put them on a blog.
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Re: Did the Buddha teach us to dwell only in the present?

Post by seeker242 »

starter wrote:
Thanks for your very helpful input. As I understand, "live only in the present" (e.g. not to plan for the future) was taught by some teachers for practicing "objective observation", "present-moment awareness", and etc.
Personally, when people interpret "live only in the present" as meaning "not to plan for the future", I think that is a misinterpretation and misunderstanding of what is meant to "live in the present". It really just means don't brood over or worry about what happened in the past or what will happen in the future.

But of course, "worrying" is quite different from "planning" and quite different from "reflecting". Worrying, by definition, is stress and anxiety, whereas simply planning and reflecting is not.

:anjali:
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Re: Did the Buddha teach us to dwell only in the present?

Post by Kumara »

seeker242 wrote:Personally, when people interpret "live only in the present" as meaning "not to plan for the future", I think that is a misinterpretation and misunderstanding of what is meant to "live in the present". It really just means don't brood over or worry about what happened in the past or what will happen in the future.

But of course, "worrying" is quite different from "planning" and quite different from "reflecting". Worrying, by definition, is stress and anxiety, whereas simply planning and reflecting is not.
+1

When the mind knows what's true, it sees thoughts of the past and the future (and the present) as thoughts. It doesn't see them as real. Seeing them as passing phenomena in the now, it doesn't grasp on them. In this way, longing and dejection don't arise due to recalling and planning. So, question: How do I regard thoughts of the past and the future?
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Re: Did the Buddha teach us to dwell only on the present?

Post by Mkoll »

Kumara wrote:When the mind knows what's true, it sees thoughts of the past and the future (and the present) as thoughts. It doesn't see them as real. Seeing them as passing phenomena in the now, it doesn't grasp on them. In this way, longing and dejection don't arise due to recalling and planning. So, question: How do I regard thoughts of the past and the future?
Dear Kumara,

I think you've got one way of regarding them: perception of impermanence.

:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Did the Buddha teach us to dwell only on the present?

Post by Ceisiwr »

What is there but the present?

The past has gone and if the future exists then, its already predetermined


All we can known is in the here and now
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Kumara
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Re: Did the Buddha teach us to dwell only on the present?

Post by Kumara »

Mkoll wrote:
Kumara wrote:When the mind knows what's true, it sees thoughts of the past and the future (and the present) as thoughts. It doesn't see them as real. Seeing them as passing phenomena in the now, it doesn't grasp on them. In this way, longing and dejection don't arise due to recalling and planning. So, question: How do I regard thoughts of the past and the future?
Dear Kumara,

I think you've got one way of regarding them: perception of impermanence.

:anjali:
We could also see them as mere thoughts, mere constructs--happening. That would cover anicca, dukkha and anatta.
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Re: Did the Buddha teach us to dwell only on the present?

Post by Kumara »

clw_uk wrote:What is there but the present?

The past has gone and if the future exists then, its already predetermined


All we can known is in the here and now
And the present is simply what we perceive. As Aj Sumedho said, "Now is the Knowing."
And what we know is over.
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Re: Did the Buddha teach us to dwell only on the present?

Post by Ceisiwr »

Of course he did :) the Dhamma is present here and now, where else is it?

What else is there but the present?

memories flash in the moment, then fade

thoughts of the future are flashes in the moment that fade
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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