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Buddhists are losers? - Dhamma Wheel

Buddhists are losers?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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robertk
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Buddhists are losers?

Postby robertk » Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:18 pm


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Mkoll
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Re: Buddhists are losers?

Postby Mkoll » Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:21 pm

Dear robertk,

To even begin this kind of debate, one needs to strictly define the term "loser". It has different meanings for different people.

:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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robertk
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Re: Buddhists are losers?

Postby robertk » Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:22 pm

The texts do include poor followers, sometimes ugly, shortlived and various flotsam of the society of the time.
But from my reading the followers who are rich, successful and powerful; even Kings and Queens , are more numerous.

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Buddhists are losers?

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:51 pm

The traditional use of the term "loser" is for someone not successful at anything, not ambitious. This doesn't fit with Buddhism, imo.

There is the wholesome desire of chanda, also the Buddha's resolve:

"Though my skin, my nerves and my bones shall waste away and my life blood go dry, I will not leave this seat until I have attained the highest wisdom, called supreme enlightenment, that leads to everlasting happiness." (Majjhima Nikaya 70)

The wholesome desire for enlightenment:
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manas
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Re: Buddhists are losers?

Postby manas » Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:24 pm

Of course Buddhists are losers. First, we lose clinging to self-views, then clinging to sceptical doubt, then clinging to rules & rituals...eventually, we even lose craving; and then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair are all lost.

Playing on words aside, I think it is a purely subjective term. Some ignorant folks would regards monks as 'losers' whereas, we see their lifestyle as most admirable and worthwhile. And we might regard ourselves as being reasonably well-off and successful, but a extremely wealthy person might regard us as 'losers' because we don't live in a mansion in an exclusive gated community, drive the best and latest car, own a holiday home in the South of France...(or whatever else it is the elites in society get up to).

:anjali:
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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Goofaholix
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Re: Buddhists are losers?

Postby Goofaholix » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:22 pm

In Asia this wouldn't necessarily be true, someone would likely be a Buddhist because ones parents were.

Converts to any religion I think are likely to have gone through a stage of disillusionment or having failed or felt a "loser", this is needed to motivate someone to look for a solution to their problems. So in the west in terms of western ideals of success a convert to Buddhism will likely have been at some stage what might be considered a loser.

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Sam Vara
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Re: Buddhists are losers?

Postby Sam Vara » Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:15 pm

Renouncers.

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Anagarika
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Re: Buddhists are losers?

Postby Anagarika » Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:33 am

I found this article, below. I note that of the qualities of being a loser, the Dhamma is antithetical / an antidote to each of them. How, then, could one as a committed practitioner on the Path, ever be a loser?

" Qualities of a loser (from 10 Traits of Losers: Are you One? Written on 8/07/2008 by Alex Shalman, creator of the Practical Personal Development blog.) http://www.dumblittleman.com/2008/08/10 ... u-one.html

Inhibited integrity

Unnecessary gossip and slander

Chronic pessimism

Pass an injured man

No ambitions

Mean and hateful .

Don't believe in or respect yourself

Quit before you sweat

Closed mindedness

Take no responsibility

If you tread through life being self-centered, egotistical, and not give a damn about anyone else you're a loser. Being a loser isn't about how you view yourself, or what wonderful things you can do for yourself, rather it's your unwillingness to contribute back to your fellow man. "

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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Buddhists are losers?

Postby Modus.Ponens » Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:53 am

This winner vs loser is really an american thing. I don't recal hearing a similar concept in any other country. Life is not a game that you win or lose. Even more ridiculous is the notion that some people in life are winners (meaning they have the nature of winning in their blood) or losers (meaning that they have the nature of losing in their DNA).

But if you go by that standard, since it's intimately connected with the so called american dream, yes, buddhists are losers. Our motivation in life is not to accumulate money, collect women _ as if they were baseball cards _ or climb the ladder of power. In that sense of the word, I am a proud loser.
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

SarathW
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Re: Buddhists are losers?

Postby SarathW » Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:06 am

I think Buddhist are the seekers of the highest happiness.
A child will give up with playing toy cars when he become an adult. He will drive a real car. Only a child will say that an adult is a looser.

Buddha did not deny the happiness of the material enjoyment but said that we can achieve higher happiness.

See four kind of happiness by Aya Khema:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zAQU8MEHnM
:)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

barcsimalsi
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Re: Buddhists are losers?

Postby barcsimalsi » Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:46 am

Buddhism does not teach about winners and losers, it teaches about what is wise and what is ignorant.

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robertk
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Re: Buddhists are losers?

Postby robertk » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:50 am


binocular
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Re: Buddhists are losers?

Postby binocular » Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:46 am


binocular
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Re: Buddhists are losers?

Postby binocular » Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:48 am

When someone asks me what's my favorite book, and I say the Pali Canon - what kind of response do you think I get, huh?
There are even many people who consider themselves Buddhists, and they roll their eyes or otherwise make it clear that they disapprove of my choice.

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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Buddhists are losers?

Postby Modus.Ponens » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:04 pm

He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

binocular
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Re: Buddhists are losers?

Postby binocular » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:16 pm


barcsimalsi
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Re: Buddhists are losers?

Postby barcsimalsi » Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:28 am


binocular
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Re: Buddhists are losers?

Postby binocular » Sun Jan 05, 2014 12:19 pm


barcsimalsi
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Re: Buddhists are losers?

Postby barcsimalsi » Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:22 pm


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David N. Snyder
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Re: Buddhists are losers?

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:12 pm

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