Arahants

Theravāda in the 21st century - modern applications of ancient wisdom

Re: Arahants

Postby BlackBird » Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:26 am

kirk5a wrote:
BlackBird wrote:With all the care and concern I give to grammar, do you not think I would have added a colon in such an instance? I rather think this is an instance of wishful thinking on your behalf.

I posted the video because It gives a decent summary of some of the doctrinal problems I have with Venerable Maha Boowa's teachings, teachings I feel are in clear contradiction with that of the Buddha. But as is becoming somewhat of a theme here, you have chosen to address something quite tangential to the topic at hand.

Except there is the section where Ven. Sujato acknowledges the possibility that there is some samadhi associated with enlightenment, that can be accessed by an arahant, known by those who have "ended the defilements" that is being referred to with the "original mind" notion. In which case, those would be actual arahants, and it would neither be a "mistake" nor a "doctrinal problem."


That was merely one of the suggestions, I prefer the other more logical suggestions, i.e. that such monks have gotten bogged down in their jhanas and mistaken the one pointed mind for Nibbana. But rather than responding to me here, how about you just read the book that Mr. Man has posted here in this thread and see for yourself. I am going to re-read it also, and perhaps then we can have a reasoned discussion on the finer points of this 'original mind' stuff.

Viscid wrote:
Blackbird wrote:Look, I met a monk in Sri Lanka who to me clearly seemded to possess the ability to read my mind. The incidents were far too uncanny.

It's a shame how impossible it is to talk about these sorts of abilities without the discussion degrading into nonsense. I'd really like to know the full story behind this incident, and how you think one comes to possess such an ability, how/why it works, etc.


I'm not sure whether I want to publicly discuss this, but I would be happy to talk to you in private about it, and anyone else for that matter.

metta
Jack
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'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta
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Re: Arahants

Postby vishuroshan » Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:11 am

VEN. ARAHAT VAJIRA BUDDHI is an ARAHAT who lives in sri lanka . http://www.pathtonibbana.com
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Re: Arahants

Postby cooran » Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:28 am

Really vishuroshan? How do you know this person is an Arahant?

With metta,
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Re: Arahants

Postby Mkoll » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:02 am

cooran wrote:Really vishuroshan? How do you know this person is an Arahant?

With metta,
Chris


The only way he possibly could (or anyone possibly could for that matter) know someone is an Arahant is if he had the supernormal power of knowing another's mind. Otherwise it is at best an educated guess, and at worst a cult of personality.

:anjali:
Peace,
James
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Re: Arahants

Postby vishuroshan » Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:58 pm

My dear friends,

i have been visitng this monk from a very longtime and i know about his purity. i didnt come to this conclusion just by listning to his dhamma. after seeing him, his appearance, skin colour, his wisdom, his knowledge, the way he reacts for certains things. i came to this conclusion. i have never seen such a person in my life. one day one person has taken a photo of this monk, and there was a huge flash light appeared on his forhead/head. i also beleive that he can attain the CESSATION STATE(without breathing) NIRODHA SAMAPATTI. he's the most powerful person on earth. he has read our minds also.
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Re: Arahants

Postby SarathW » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:52 pm

Mkoll wrote:
cooran wrote:Really vishuroshan? How do you know this person is an Arahant?

With metta,
Chris


The only way he possibly could (or anyone possibly could for that matter) know someone is an Arahant is if he had the supernormal power of knowing another's mind. Otherwise it is at best an educated guess, and at worst a cult of personality.

:anjali:


Hi Mkoll
Not all Arahants have supernormal powers. There are Dry Vision Arahants who do not have supernormal powers.
:)
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Re: Arahants

Postby vishuroshan » Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:46 am

Sarath, there are 2 kinds of arahats in this world, one is PANNA VIMUKTI, other one is CHETO VIMUKTI. cheto vimuktika arahats can attain cessation state. not only arahats, some of the lay people also get supernormal powers. you dont actually need a power to identify an arahat. you need wisdom. when UPATISSA n KOLITHA saw ARAHAT ASSAJI, they knew that he's the one they were looking for. coz of their previous skillfullness which they have developed. and rememer rahat never shows their abilities to people. if you have wisdom, you will know.
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Re: Arahants

Postby vishuroshan » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:12 am

please do not use the word DRY for an ARAHAT. they are not dry. all the arahats are supreme. CHETO vimutti arahats have high DHYANA POWER(concentration power). thats the difference. its very rare to have an arahat, and its even more rare to have an arahat who has ASHTA VIDYA(8 SUPER NORMAL POWERS). and its even more rare to find an arahat who has all those powers and who can attain cessation state(NIRODHA SAMAPATTI).
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Re: Arahants

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:31 am

vishuroshan wrote:please do not use the word DRY for an ARAHAT. they are not dry. all the arahats are supreme. CHETO vimutti arahats have high DHYANA POWER(concentration power). thats the difference. its very rare to have an arahat, and its even more rare to have an arahat who has ASHTA VIDYA(8 SUPER NORMAL POWERS). and its even more rare to find an arahat who has all those powers and who can attain cessation state(NIRODHA SAMAPATTI).
This monk may be an arahant, which would be nice, but by your own admission that is your opinion of this monk. I would suggest very strongly that care should betaken in how you talk about all of this, given that your over enthusiasm could end up reflecting poorly on the monk in question.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Arahants

Postby vishuroshan » Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:04 pm

i feel that its my duty to tel someone about him so that someone can take his guidence. but i know, evene if i tel about him to so many people, only very few people are staying with him. thats the dhamma. so i will let DHAMMA decide it. dont worry. he has his seclusion. he's not preaching dhamma to everyone. but still he has allowed us to give his dhamma to people.
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Re: Arahants

Postby SarathW » Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:41 pm

vishuroshan wrote:please do not use the word DRY for an ARAHAT. they are not dry. all the arahats are supreme. CHETO vimutti arahats have high DHYANA POWER(concentration power). thats the difference. its very rare to have an arahat, and its even more rare to have an arahat who has ASHTA VIDYA(8 SUPER NORMAL POWERS). and its even more rare to find an arahat who has all those powers and who can attain cessation state(NIRODHA SAMAPATTI).


Hi Roshan
Dry-visioned Arahants (sukkhavipassaka) is the English translation unfortunately.
Please see: Page 425
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/buddh ... gsurw6.pdf


Thanks for the link. But recording 1 and 3 are not complete and stoped half way.
This monk got lot of practical knowledge about Buddhism.
I am sure you know that the knowledge and the wisdom (discernment) are two different things.
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Re: Arahants

Postby vishuroshan » Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:03 am

dear sarath, just by listning to dhamma you cannot see his wisdom. you need to meet him, stay with him for a long time. whatever he has said is truth. thrs a problem in the web site.
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Re: Arahants

Postby SarathW » Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:21 am

Perhaps you could forward some of forum questions to him and provide the answers for us.
:)
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Re: Arahants

Postby vishuroshan » Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:16 am

Dear everyone

please refer some of his dhamma quotes, which i have taken from his sermons.

“WE MONKS GOING ON ALMS(PINDAPATA), “PINDU SIGA” MEANS BEGGING FOR FOOD. WE MUST BEG. BUT STILL, WE LIVE WITH RESPECT”


“PEOPLE WANT TO BE UNUSUAL PEOPLE WHEN THEY SIT FOR MEDITATION, BUT AFTER THE FINAL ATTAINMENT(ARAHATSHIP), THERE’S NO “ME” IN YOU”


“CAN YOU TALK ABOUT KARUNA, MAITREE, WHILE YOU ARE ENGAGING IN JOBS & FAMILY RESPONSIBILITIES?”


“WHY DO YOU EXPECT MERITS WHEN YOU GIVE “DAANA”. GENEROSITIY IS FOR LETTING GO OF SELFISHNESS, TO REDUCE GREEDINESS AND TO MAKE THE MIND CLEAN, DON’T WE GIVE ANYTHING IF THERE’S NOTHING CALLED MERITS IN THIS WORLD?”


“IF YOU ARE GIVING, GIVE LIKE “ EKASAATAKA BAMUNA”. HE HAD ONLY 1 ROBE FOR HIM AND HE GAVE IT TO LORD BUDDHA”


“IN DHAMMAPADA, LORD BUDDA CLEARLY STATES THAT BY GOING REFUGE ON HILLS,ROCKS,SUN,MOON & TREES(including statues), WILL NOT GIVE YOU THE LIBERATION FROM SUFFERING, THEREFORE WE NEED TO GO REFUGE ON BUDDHA,DHAMMA & SANGHA ONLY. IT MEANS THAT YOU NEED TO PRACTICE THE PATH ONLY.(4 NOBLE TRUTHS. NOBEL EIGHFOLD PATH..etc) (REF - DHAMMAPADA VERSE 189 – 192)


“SOME PEOPLE KEEP SOME FOOD INFRONT OF A BUDDHA STATUE LOOKING FOR GREAT MERITS ,BUT WHEN A HELPLESS BEGGER COMES AND ASK FOR SOMETHING, THEY DON’T GIVE. WHATEVER THEY DO THEY DO IT WITH LOBHA CHETHANA(GREEDINESS). WITH ALL THOSE DIRT MINDS, THEY DON’T KEEP QUIET, THEY GO FOR MEDITATION CLASSES, AND PRACTICE “MAITREE BHAVANA”. CAN YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT IM TRYING TO SAY?


“SHRADDHA IS NOT A BLIND FAITH, IT’S A DEVELOPING PHENOMENEN, DEVELOPING FACTOR. ITS AN INDREEYA DHARMA/BALA DHARMA. IT NEED TO BE DEVELOPED , IT DEVELOPS WHEN ONE PRACTICES NOBEL PATH. ”


“DON’T CLING TO WORDS, WORDS ARE JUST WORDS, WORDS ARE NOT DHARMA. PALI IS NOT DHARMA, IT’S A LANGUAGE”


“SANGHA” MEANS “SAMUHA(GROUP)”, DON’T TAKE ONLY BIKKHUS. COZ THERE ARE LAY PEOPLE WHO HAVE ATTAINED UPTO ANAGAMI, EVEN IT’S A BIKKHU WHO’S NOT PRACTICING CANNOT BE TAKEN AS SANGHA”

“CAN YOU MAKE OTHER’S MIND PEACEFUL? CAN YOU MAKE OTHERS VIRTUES? , DHAMMA IS FOR YOUR TO PRACTICE”

"
bhakti is blind. Do not get to see a next step. It is obscured by delusion. There is no next step. This is okay in other religions, which have beliefs such as Gods, and creation and so on. What we find here is, doing the same thing what they do there. Now, the Buddha is not our savior for us to keep worshipping an image. He is not a son of God either. He didn’t come to send us to heaven. He arrived, noticed dukkha, developed the Magga to end the dukkha, and became free of dukkha. After that, He instructed on dhamma. He is our Exalted Magga-Teacher only. However, He cannot take us across. He could impart deshana, but He cannot teach us. Although there are many teachers, none can teach us, learning has to be done by us. Likewise, the Buddha also had explained, had given advices, had conducted deshana, had exposed the path, but we must ourselves need to tread on it. Then, we think that we could get there by adhering to San°kalpana borrowed from other religions, by conducting all kinds of rites & rituals, putting together offerings, and puja. It would not happen. Why does it not happen then? Because what they have acquired is bhakti not Saddha! Then, bhakti is blind. Do they know the Buddha through that? Do they worship having knowledge about the Buddha? This would not have happened if they had known at least a shadow of the qualities of the Buddha, and the shadow of qualities of Sangha they would not stay there. It would not happen by worshiping them and making offerings to them., as they keep worshiping them continuously, doors will be locked tightly for them."
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Re: Arahants

Postby vishuroshan » Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:07 am

DHARMA IS FOR YOU TO PRACTICE AND ITS VERY PRIVATE. DON’T TRY TO SHOW IT TO THE WHOLE WORLD. (VEN VAJIRA BUDDHI)
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Re: Arahants

Postby kmath » Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:23 am

vishuroshan wrote:“CAN YOU TALK ABOUT KARUNA, MAITREE, WHILE YOU ARE ENGAGING IN JOBS & FAMILY RESPONSIBILITIES?”


What's that supposed to mean?
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Re: Arahants

Postby vishuroshan » Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:59 am

dont ask. think about it. whether you can be a KINDFUL person with your duties(family,job..etc) you will know.
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Re: Arahants

Postby cooran » Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:15 am

Dear Vishuroshan,

Please don't use capital letters for whole words in your posts - they are regarded as "shouting" .

With metta,
Chris
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---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: Arahants

Postby vishuroshan » Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:47 am

Dear Cooran, this is the problem why people dont recognize an arahat as well. sometimes you might see that an Arahat is shouting. there are incidents like that. even JAHAN CHAH/ AJAHN MUN has scolded lay people. it does not mean that they are angry. its their words/how they talk. they are always peaceful from inside.

in this case, dont look at the LETTERS(from outside). Look at the DHAMMA(meaning - inside).

with METTA
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Re: Arahants

Postby vishuroshan » Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:02 am

thos who need the photo of VEN VAJIRA BUDDHI. pls let me know your e-mail addresses. will forward you the photos. or else pls send me a mail on vishuroshan@hotmail.com. i'm happy to send it to you all.
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