Going vegan!

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manas
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Re: Going vegan!

Post by manas »

HI mojo,

I ran out of cheese a while back, and was dairy-free for a few days. Then, when I could buy some again, it tasted kind of 'off'. There was nothing wrong with this cheese, I realized that 'this is just how cheese tastes.' I started going off it naturally after that, and I've actually stopped buying it. I found the same thing with totally fresh butter. After a few days of a vegan diet, my body's initial reaction was, 'ew, that tastes odd'. But once again, there was nothing wrong with it, this was just how butter tastes. It's interesting how, if we eat a more pure diet for a while, that if we then taste something from an animal, we really notice it. I'm not saying animal products are bad, of course, just that I'm gradually going off them, that my body is responding in this way. (Still eating yoghourt for the good bacteria, and truly free-range eggs for the protein, however).

kind regards,
manas.
:anjali:
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
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Ben
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Re: Going vegan!

Post by Ben »

manas wrote:Still eating yoghourt for the good bacteria, and truly free-range eggs for the protein
Try diary-free probiotics for bacteria (Inner Health Plus dairy free) and for cholesterol and saturated fat-free protein - you can't beat beans and tempeh. Just take B12 tablet daily and you'll be fine.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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Mkoll
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Re: Going vegan!

Post by Mkoll »

Roland wrote:Less than 5% of ALA converts to EPA and less than .5% of ALA converts to DHA, in healthy people.

http://chriskresser.com/why-fish-stomps ... of-omega-3
This conversion may be better in those who do not eat EPA/DHA directly. Our bodies are incredibly smart: according to the study referenced in the link below, those who don't eat fish convert more ALA to DHA/EPA.

The body knows how much of what it needs. If you're eating fish and getting enough EPA/DHA, then there is no need for the body to waste energy converting ALA to more DHA/EPA than it needs. If you don't eat fish, then your body knows it has to synthesize the EPA/DHA it needs from ALA and will ramp this synthesis up.
A UK research group, led by Dr Ailsa Welch at the University of East Anglia, estimated dietary intakes and blood levels of ALA, EPA and DHA among 4,902 fish-eaters and non-fish-eating meat-eaters, vegetarians or vegans. Surprisingly, despite the significantly lower intakes of EPA and DHA among non-fish-eaters, their blood levels of EPA and DHA were much more similar to those of regular fish eaters.The researchers estimated the conversion of ALA into EPA and DHA by calculating the ratio of long-chain omega-3 fatty acids to plant-derived dietary ALA.This ratio was significantly greater in all the non-fish-eating groups than in the fish eaters, suggesting that in non-fish-eaters the body may compensate for the lack of EPA and DHA by boosting its conversion of ALA from plant foods.
http://www.nutripeople.co.uk/news/conve ... ish-eaters

:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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Sam Vara
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Re: Going vegan!

Post by Sam Vara »

Some really interesting points above. I've been vegan since 1984, which (in the UK, at least) means that for a lot of that time, most people I met casually didn't even know what veganism was.

I became vegan for ethical reasons - I worked for a time as a dairy herdsman, and didn't like what was going on in the industry. I never took any supplements, other than B12, and relied on the vague (and probably daft!) idea that if I mixed proteins and ate a good range of foods, then I would be OK. In fact, it has worked out fine so far. Fifty seven years old, everyone says I look a lot younger, three children, a demanding job, and (before the joints complained!) third Dan in a martial art. I have recently started taking a little ground flax seed because of all the publicity around it, but up until a couple of years ago I had never heard of it. I might of course have been very lucky health-wise, but I might also be a fit and healthy reason for vegans to drop some of their excessive worries. If I don't post for a while, someone might want to PM me to see if I have dropped dead due to my dietary deficits catching up with me!

Manas' points are very interesting. I am extremely aware of the smell of milk and egg products in food. For me, they are slightly repellent and just don't smell like food any more. The only time I knowingly deviated from the veganism was after a Vipassana retreat when there was a celebration and some Indian people cooked a big dish of sweet milky rice. Not wanting to disappoint them, and all too aware that "veganism" is just another identity to cling to, I indulged. Two hours later, I was wondering who had spilt the sour yoghurt on my clothes - a really cheesy and nasty smell which I couldn't shake off. I realised that I was actually sweating it out. It seems that I have lost the ability to digest milk etc., and now might lack the enzymes or whatever deals with it once ingested.

Anyway, that's just my story. Good luck with yours, and may whatever you eat bring you good health and happiness.
Roland
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Re: Going vegan!

Post by Roland »

Mkoll wrote:
Roland wrote:Less than 5% of ALA converts to EPA and less than .5% of ALA converts to DHA, in healthy people.

http://chriskresser.com/why-fish-stomps ... of-omega-3
This conversion may be better in those who do not eat EPA/DHA directly. Our bodies are incredibly smart: according to the study referenced in the link below, those who don't eat fish convert more ALA to DHA/EPA.

The body knows how much of what it needs. If you're eating fish and getting enough EPA/DHA, then there is no need for the body to waste energy converting ALA to more DHA/EPA than it needs. If you don't eat fish, then your body knows it has to synthesize the EPA/DHA it needs from ALA and will ramp this synthesis up.
A UK research group, led by Dr Ailsa Welch at the University of East Anglia, estimated dietary intakes and blood levels of ALA, EPA and DHA among 4,902 fish-eaters and non-fish-eating meat-eaters, vegetarians or vegans. Surprisingly, despite the significantly lower intakes of EPA and DHA among non-fish-eaters, their blood levels of EPA and DHA were much more similar to those of regular fish eaters.The researchers estimated the conversion of ALA into EPA and DHA by calculating the ratio of long-chain omega-3 fatty acids to plant-derived dietary ALA.This ratio was significantly greater in all the non-fish-eating groups than in the fish eaters, suggesting that in non-fish-eaters the body may compensate for the lack of EPA and DHA by boosting its conversion of ALA from plant foods.
http://www.nutripeople.co.uk/news/conve ... ish-eaters

:anjali:
Perhaps. But that's not what the science shows. Here is the link to the study you quoted:

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/92/5/ ... tract?etoc

which is only an estimate and a preliminary study. It doesn't really prove anything. There would need to be well controlled, clinical trials to confirm the estimates made in that study and it even says so in the conclusion:
Conclusions: Substantial differences in intakes and in sources of n−3 PUFAs existed between the dietary-habit groups, but the differences in status were smaller than expected, possibly because the precursor-product ratio was greater in non-fish-eaters than in fish-eaters, potentially indicating increased estimated conversion of ALA. If intervention studies were to confirm these findings, it could have implications for fish requirements.
Do you have any links to well controlled, clinical, peer reviewed studies confirming these estimates? That would be interesting to see.
"No tree becomes rooted and sturdy unless many a wind assails it. For by its very tossing it tightens its grip and plants its roots more securely; the fragile trees are those that have grown in a sunny valley."

--Seneca the Younger (57 BCE- 65 AD)
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Mkoll
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Re: Going vegan!

Post by Mkoll »

Dear Roland,

I do not know of any other studies. I would like to see further studies as well as this subject is both interesting and important.

:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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Ben
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Re: Going vegan!

Post by Ben »

Mkoll,

Www.nutritionfacts.org
There is quite a bit there on flaxseed. I highly recommend the site.
Kind regards,
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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Mkoll
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Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:55 pm
Location: USA

Re: Going vegan!

Post by Mkoll »

Thanks Ben. That is my go-to site for nutrition these days.

:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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