Four Elements meditation

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
Babadhari
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Re: Four Elements meditation

Post by Babadhari »

hi mike

thanks very much for the links

:namaste:
Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion.
Aflame, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs ......

Seeing thus, the disciple of the Noble One grows disenchanted. SN 35.28
Babadhari
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Re: Four Elements meditation

Post by Babadhari »

mikenz66 wrote:

I've just been listening to the particular recording here:
http://www.dharmasalon.net/Audio/bmimc_ ... r2013.html
03 (AM) Tracking elements

:anjali:
Mike
kitztack wrote:

i was under the impression that this was a Vipassana meditation but from reading it appears to be a concentration exercise :shrug:
listening to this talk confusion is once again arising. at 20 minute mark this teacher talks about the annica aspect of the elements also,similar to the
Goenka method of vipassana upon sensation.
Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion.
Aflame, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs ......

Seeing thus, the disciple of the Noble One grows disenchanted. SN 35.28
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mikenz66
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Re: Four Elements meditation

Post by mikenz66 »

kitztack wrote: listening to this talk confusion is once again arising. at 20 minute mark this teacher talks about the annica aspect of the elements also,similar to the
Goenka method of vipassana upon sensation.
Is this a continuation of your question about whether focussing on the elements are concentration or insight practices? I think that's a bit of a false dichotomy. Approaches based on Mahasi's (and many other approaches, such as Thanissaro's for that matter) are designed to develop calm and insight in tandem.

Note that in the Classical analysis of meditation subjects, element meditation is said to only lead to access concentration [E.g. see the Visuddhimagga, or this brief summary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamma%E1%B ... and_jhanas] not to jhana. [Or at least, not to the highly-absorbed definition of jhana giving in the classical commentaries, or by some modern teachers.]

Certainly, in the Visuddhimagga and other classical sources, the elements appear in the concentration section. That's how the text is constructed. However, analysis into the elements also appears in the insight section.
e.g.
Visuddhimagga XX wrote: 64. Herein, in the lifting up [of the foot when walking] two elements, the earth element and the water element,
are subordinate and sluggish while the other two are predominant and strong.
Likewise in the shifting forward and shifting sideways. In the lowering down two
elements, the fire element and the air element, are subordinate and sluggish
while the other two are predominant and strong. Likewise in the placing down
and fixing down.
He attributes the three characteristics to materiality according to
“disappearance of what grows old in each stage” by means of these six parts
into which he has thus divided it.
http://www.bps.lk/library_books.php BP207H The Path of Purification
It's this sort of analysis that Patrick Kearney is pointing towards in that talk.

:anjali:
Mike
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khlawng
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Re: Four Elements meditation

Post by khlawng »

There is one other thing I found interesting with 4 element meditation, and that is that it has some healing properties when you have minor body discomfort due to some sickness.
I found it useful e.g. after a bulk of food poisoning to sit in samadhi, bring attention down to the intestinal area (which was hurting) and spending 5 to 10mins on each element.
It does ease the discomfort quite noticeably.
For each element e.g. earth element, just think in your mind "may the earth element in the [affected area] align itself" and just let each element work itself out.
Aside from that, 4 element meditation for me results in:

1. Earth-element: very distinctive heaviness
2. Water-element: flowing like liquid sloshing around the entire body
3. Fire-element: heat but very slight only
4. Air-element: supporting and lightness
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Mkoll
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Re: Four Elements meditation

Post by Mkoll »

Thanks for the tips, khlawng. I'll have to try that.

:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Babadhari
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Re: Four Elements meditation

Post by Babadhari »

indeed with just a few twenty minute meditations on the Four Elements i found this form of practice to be very soothing and relaxing and quite benificial in aiding sleep, as sometimes Anapanasati can have too much of an invigorating effect on me before bedtime
:namaste:
Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion.
Aflame, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs ......

Seeing thus, the disciple of the Noble One grows disenchanted. SN 35.28
Babadhari
Posts: 459
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:23 pm
Location: lalita ghat

Re: Four Elements meditation

Post by Babadhari »

here is another take onn the Elemants by Thanisarro Bhikku

he includes the element of Space for escaping anxiety and uses the water element to produce cooling, very grounding

http://www.dhammatalks.org/Archive/y201 ... _Space.mp3
Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion.
Aflame, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs ......

Seeing thus, the disciple of the Noble One grows disenchanted. SN 35.28
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