Is Buddhism dependent on Dualism?

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Is Buddhism dependent on Dualism?

Postby AJungianIdeal » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:41 am

The leading Philosophy of Mind theory is of Emergence; of a mind that comes from physical matter. Dualism is essentially a smear word nowadays, if you don't like someones philosophy you can call them a Cartesian or some variant to attack their credibility.

As far as I understand Buddhist Metaphysics postulates an eternal mind or consciousness that moves from birth to birth. Not a soul, because it doesn't have some essential, intrinsic property but still something not tied to matter. Is this wrong?
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Re: Is Buddhism dependent on Dualism?

Postby James the Giant » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:38 am

There is no eternal mind or conciousness that moves from body to body.
That is a basic and serious misconception you need to clarify before getting into this discussion.
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Re: Is Buddhism dependent on Dualism?

Postby khlawng » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:40 am

AJungianIdeal wrote:The leading Philosophy of Mind theory is of Emergence; of a mind that comes from physical matter. Dualism is essentially a smear word nowadays, if you don't like someones philosophy you can call them a Cartesian or some variant to attack their credibility.


the buddha's teaching and instructions to free one from suffering are so simple and complete.
the are all contained in the suttas and that really is all you need.
if you aren't sure about someone's philosophy and you are a buddhist, I urge you to read the kalama sutta.
so why bother too much with modern day theories, scientific research, philosophies and other "whatever-ism" that merely serves to keep us intellectually occupied but spiritually empty?

AJungianIdeal wrote:... Is this wrong?


perhaps the more important question would be; Is this essential knowledge to the end of suffering?
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Re: Is Buddhism dependent on Dualism?

Postby Shaswata_Panja » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:46 am

khlawng wrote:
AJungianIdeal wrote:The leading Philosophy of Mind theory is of Emergence; of a mind that comes from physical matter. Dualism is essentially a smear word nowadays, if you don't like someones philosophy you can call them a Cartesian or some variant to attack their credibility.


the buddha's teaching and instructions to free one from suffering are so simple and complete.
the are all contained in the suttas and that really is all you need.
if you aren't sure about someone's philosophy and you are a buddhist, I urge you to read the kalama sutta.
so why bother too much with modern day theories, scientific research, philosophies and other "whatever-ism" that merely serves to keep us intellectually occupied but spiritually empty?

AJungianIdeal wrote:... Is this wrong?


perhaps the more important question would be; Is this essential knowledge to the end of suffering?


What you say is dependent upon the mind (though always in a state of flux) surviving the body

If Emergence Theory is true, then there is also removal of suffering with death as the mind ceases to exist

You cannot just wipe out these questions and say whitewashing these questions is the appropriate answer to them
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Re: Is Buddhism dependent on Dualism?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:56 am

AJungianIdeal wrote:What gets transferred? DNA?

Yes, DNA = Do not ask :)

If you ask what gets transferred then you're probably clinging to a self-view of some kind.

Life is a process, not a person or a living being. It behaves more like a wave than a particle.

If someone asks, “What got transferred from Indonesia to Sri Lanka after the Boxing-day Tsunami?” we can reply, “Energy got transferred,” but the water didn't get transferred, nor even the waves. A wave is a continually changing, observable phenomenon that results from the transfer of energy. No wave remains the same even for an instant.

Kamma, or volitional actions by body, speech, and thought are energy, which gives results when the conditions are ripe.
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Re: Is Buddhism dependent on Dualism?

Postby khlawng » Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:51 pm

Shaswata_Panja wrote:
What you say is dependent upon the mind (though always in a state of flux) surviving the body

may i ask how have you come to this conclusion base on what i said in the post above?


Shaswata_Panja wrote:If Emergence Theory is true, then there is also removal of suffering with death as the mind ceases to exist

permanently?

Shaswata_Panja wrote:You cannot just wipe out these questions and say whitewashing these questions is the appropriate answer to them

It is a non-essential question. at least to me.
Its like you are rushing through a thick and dangerous jungle with specific instructions on how to get to the next village without falling into traps or running into bandits only to be waylaid when you pass a pile of dung to stop, look and examine it and wasting time pondering if it belongs to a cow or elephant.
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Re: Is Buddhism dependent on Dualism?

Postby Babadhari » Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:11 pm

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
AJungianIdeal wrote:What gets transferred? DNA?

Yes, DNA = Do not ask :)



:bow: :clap: :rofl: :twothumbsup: well said Bhante
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Aflame, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs ......

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Re: Is Buddhism dependent on Dualism?

Postby suttametta » Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:37 pm

AJungianIdeal wrote:The leading Philosophy of Mind theory is of Emergence; of a mind that comes from physical matter.


this model works for buddhism; whichever factors ultimately turn out to be at play, buddhism simply says the factors recur.
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Re: Is Buddhism dependent on Dualism?

Postby suttametta » Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:44 pm

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
AJungianIdeal wrote:What gets transferred? DNA?

Yes, DNA = Do not ask :)

If you ask what gets transferred then you're probably clinging to a self-view of some kind.

Life is a process, not a person or a living being. It behaves more like a wave than a particle.

If someone asks, “What got transferred from Indonesia to Sri Lanka after the Boxing-day Tsunami?” we can reply, “Energy got transferred,” but the water didn't get transferred, nor even the waves. A wave is a continually changing, observable phenomenon that results from the transfer of energy. No wave remains the same even for an instant.

Kamma, or volitional actions by body, speech, and thought are energy, which gives results when the conditions are ripe.


Nice answer. Thank you.
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Re: Is Buddhism dependent on Dualism?

Postby Shaswata_Panja » Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:26 pm

khlawng wrote:
Shaswata_Panja wrote:
What you say is dependent upon the mind (though always in a state of flux) surviving the body

may i ask how have you come to this conclusion base on what i said in the post above?


Shaswata_Panja wrote:If Emergence Theory is true, then there is also removal of suffering with death as the mind ceases to exist

permanently?

Shaswata_Panja wrote:You cannot just wipe out these questions and say whitewashing these questions is the appropriate answer to them

It is a non-essential question. at least to me.
Its like you are rushing through a thick and dangerous jungle with specific instructions on how to get to the next village without falling into traps or running into bandits only to be waylaid when you pass a pile of dung to stop, look and examine it and wasting time pondering if it belongs to a cow or elephant.



very good analogy and answer --thank you
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Re: Is Buddhism dependent on Dualism?

Postby SarathW » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:09 am

Some info:

The Problems of Life
Who? Whence? Whither? Why? What? are some important problems
that affect all humanity.

Page 530:
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/buddh ... gsurw6.pdf
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Re: Is Buddhism dependent on Dualism?

Postby clw_uk » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:26 am

perhaps the more important question would be; Is this essential knowledge to the end of suffering?

:goodpost:
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Re: Is Buddhism dependent on Dualism?

Postby clw_uk » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:28 am

If Emergence Theory is true, then there is also removal of suffering with death as the mind ceases to exist


Yet there would still be suffering here and now ...
“Happy is the man who has broken the chains which hurt the mind, and has given up worrying once and for all.” Ovid
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Re: Is Buddhism dependent on Dualism?

Postby AJungianIdeal » Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:46 am

suttametta wrote:
AJungianIdeal wrote:The leading Philosophy of Mind theory is of Emergence; of a mind that comes from physical matter.


this model works for buddhism; whichever factors ultimately turn out to be at play, buddhism simply says the factors recur.

I suppose that makes sense.
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