Wat Dhammakaya

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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:39 pm

Gosh... if that extract is anything to go by, they've out-Mahayana'd the Mahayana!

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Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


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One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby greenjuice » Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:44 am

That‘s not even the best part. I‘m on my mobile now and can‘t open the document, but if I remember correctly 1- There were three beings that appeared in the beginning of time, one white, one black, and one silver, and they have been in a cosmic battle since, in the process creating everything that is. The white crystal primordial being is the Dhammakaya Buddha. 2- The founder of the Dhammakaya movement is the incarnation of the fist being created by the Primordial Buddha, sent here to liberate all beings and destroy the samsara itself. 3- the Primordial Buddha saw that he wasn‘t up to the task, so he himself incarnated to finish the job, and guess who is he- the current abbot of the wat.

._.
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby Benjamin » Thu Nov 28, 2013 3:01 am

greenjuice wrote:That‘s not even the best part. I‘m on my mobile now and can‘t open the document, but if I remember correctly 1- There were three beings that appeared in the beginning of time, one white, one black, and one silver, and they have been in a cosmic battle since, in the process creating everything that is. The white crystal primordial being is the Dhammakaya Buddha. 2- The founder of the Dhammakaya movement is the incarnation of the fist being created by the Primordial Buddha, sent here to liberate all beings and destroy the samsara itself. 3- the Primordial Buddha saw that he wasn‘t up to the task, so he himself incarnated to finish the job, and guess who is he- the current abbot of the wat.

._.


That is seriously on par with Star Wars. Dhammakaya should start making movies instead of all their current videos that look like Sims expansion packs.

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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby BlackBird » Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:59 am

So let me get this straight? These fellows actually think their leader was this mystical crystal light called Phra Ton Thad who created Nibbana and set up a mystical war between Buddhas and Maras?

The time will come, though, when the Sangha splits. When the Sangha is split, it is not easy to pay attention to the Buddha's teachings.

- http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Last edited by BlackBird on Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
"And so, because this Teaching is so different from what Westerners are accustomed to, they will try to adapt the Teaching to their own framework. What they need to learn to do is not to adapt the Teaching to their own point of view but to adapt their own point of view to the Teaching. This is called saddhá, or faith, and it means giving oneself to the Teaching even if the Teaching is contrary to one’s own preconceived notions of the way things are."- Ven Bodhesako

Nanavira Thera's teachings - An existential approach to the Dhamma | Ven. Bodhesako's essay on anicca
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby Sokehi » Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:06 am

They've out-scientologied the Scientology with that Sci-Fi crap. :toilet:
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby BlackBird » Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:12 am

greenjuice wrote:That‘s not even the best part. I‘m on my mobile now and can‘t open the document, but if I remember correctly 1- There were three beings that appeared in the beginning of time, one white, one black, and one silver, and they have been in a cosmic battle since, in the process creating everything that is. The white crystal primordial being is the Dhammakaya Buddha. 2- The founder of the Dhammakaya movement is the incarnation of the fist being created by the Primordial Buddha, sent here to liberate all beings and destroy the samsara itself. 3- the Primordial Buddha saw that he wasn‘t up to the task, so he himself incarnated to finish the job, and guess who is he- the current abbot of the wat.

._.



Yep... The Buddha says that Sangsara is without a discoverable beginning, but apparently he didn't know that:

In the beginning there was nothing but complete
emptiness. Suddenly, a huge dazzlingly bright
Dhammakāya, who was later called Phra Ton-thād,
appeared. It was the first and foremost entity that
emerged before everything; its brightness is greater than
anything that has been or will be. Almost immediately,
another Dhammakāya appeared, it was identical in shape
and size, but with absolute darkness. It was darker than
any darkness that has been or will be. Almost
simultaneously another Dhammakāya appeared, identical
in shape and size but with the color of well-polished lead.
The three Dhammakāyas were the Prime Origins of all
that have been and will be. Then each of them multiplied
themselves to win over the others but no party could
conquer over the rest. Those who had more refined
awareness were able to annihilate those who were less
refined. It was the start of the Cosmic War.
Nibbāna was created by the Light as the resting
abode, followed by the heavenly abodes and lastly worldly
existences. The first generation of the human ancestors
was then created. Their bodies were refined and
genderless with their sole mission to enter into deepest
level of consciousness and annihilate the Dhammakāyas of
Darkness. At first the strategy worked well, but later it
was found to have a flaw. These celestial human beings
were easily destroyed by the Dark Force. Another strategy
was then developed: a new generation of human beings.
They were designed to have bodies composed of gross
elements. They are womb-born and procreated by sexual
intercourse. To achieve this, two Dhammakāyas
reincarnated from nibbāna and assumed body of the flesh
as a man and woman. They copulated and gave birth to
the first members of the human race. Finishing their
assignment, the two Dhammakāyas transcended the
material world back to nibbāna again.

- http://blogs.dickinson.edu/buddhistethi ... -final.pdf

So yep, according to the Dhammakaya, human beings came about because two Buddhas descended from Nibbana and had sex and then went back to Nibbana. :coffee:

"Monks, these two slander the Tathagata. Which two? He who explains what was not said or spoken by the Tathagata as said or spoken by the Tathagata. And he who explains what was said or spoken by the Tathagata as not said or spoken by the Tathagata. These are two who slander the Tathagata."

- http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
"And so, because this Teaching is so different from what Westerners are accustomed to, they will try to adapt the Teaching to their own framework. What they need to learn to do is not to adapt the Teaching to their own point of view but to adapt their own point of view to the Teaching. This is called saddhá, or faith, and it means giving oneself to the Teaching even if the Teaching is contrary to one’s own preconceived notions of the way things are."- Ven Bodhesako

Nanavira Thera's teachings - An existential approach to the Dhamma | Ven. Bodhesako's essay on anicca
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby robertk » Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:28 am

Ok this is far more radical that anything Dhammakaya have ever publicly said.
They have always had the bizarre ideas about seeing Buddhas while meditating but that seems almost mild compared to what was written in that paper.
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby suriyopama » Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:07 am

Benjamin wrote:That is seriously on par with Star Wars. Dhammakaya should start making movies instead of all their current videos that look like Sims expansion packs.

:jumping:

Not far from Star Wars (or the 3rd Reich). Just have a look at the pictures on this page:
http://www.liveinternet.ru/users/debut/post278696535/
:alien: :jedi:

Old news on BBC about the attempt to arrest Golden Darth Vader (august 1999). But he was protected by 20,000 followers.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/428838.stm
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby mahat » Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:22 pm

I just like the Dhammakaya cartoons on the Jataka Tales. They lure people in with cartoons. :tongue:
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby greenjuice » Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:14 pm

Benjamin wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEkemhPni60&feature=player_embedded

Lol. Are there more of these? :D

suriyopama wrote:Not far from Star Wars (or the 3rd Reich). Just have a look at the pictures on this page:
http://www.liveinternet.ru/users/debut/post278696535/

Wow. The golden wierd-looking roof is actually thousands of golden buddha statues :shock:
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby Sokehi » Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:54 am

Eventually John Travolta might join the Dhammakaya. I can't wait for a Battlefield Earth like Movie in their weired Pantheon
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby jameswang » Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:59 am

Sokehi wrote:They've out-scientologied the Scientology with that Sci-Fi crap. :toilet:

In case others don't get this part, read this:
http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/Xenu-A4.pdf

What if they just copied the Scientology strategy?
In any case, both are sucking their followers dry.
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby suriyopama » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:26 pm

I have been banned 3 days from the Thai Visa Forum for mentioning the Dhammakaya. :embarassed:

At the section of Thai Politics I said: “The Shinawatra family is closely related with the finances of the brain-washing Dhammakaya Cult. The motto of the Dhammakaya is: 'Donate all your money to us, and you will receive your reward on your next life'. Greed and Corruption is going to destroy Buddhism”.

And I accompanied my message with this revealing picture:
Image

My message was immediately deleted, and I received a warning saying that the forum rules do not allow to lobby pro or against organizations. :rules:
(strange, since at that section of the forum they are constantly insulting the Thai politicians, Police, Army, Judicial System, etc)

Then I posted a message apologizing if I had offended anyone, and I repeated what I wanted to say but without subjective remarks. I just wrote: “The Shinawatra Family is related with the Dhammakaya".

That message was instantly fulminated, and I was punished for 3 days because I had already been warned. :shrug:

At the same thread there were other messages from other people naming the Dhammakaya (because the topic was related to them, but without naming them), and all of them have also been deleted. It seems like the word “Dhammakaya” is absolutely forbidden in the political section of that forum.

I have researched other references to Dhammakaya at the Thai Visa Forum, and I’ve found that most of them are from persons that have been meditating or ordained at their center. Amongst many other things, they claim that Buddha said that all dhammas are annatta, but Dhamma (Nirvana) is atta. They also say that their abbot is an Arahant that has met with the Buddha, who is now reincarnated in a superior heaven.
:alien: :alien: :alien:
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby gavesako » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:10 pm

It is the Dhammakaya strategy to put their people in various key positions (Buddhist organizations, university Buddhist associations, etc.) where they can actively promote their ideology and prevent others from voicing criticism. It would not be surprising if some of the admins there were part of the network as well.
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby gavesako » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:19 pm

No Buddhist bullets in Thai turmoil
Paul Kay | 23 January 2014

... While this type of extremist Buddhist leadership seems absent in Thailand, and monks do not have a strong presence in the political protests in the Thai capital, there is concern about the partisan involvement of some high profile monks and Buddhist associations.

Well known 58-year-old Luang Pu Buddha Issara, abbot of Or Noi Temple just west of Bangkok, was appointed to oversee one of the seven main anti-government protest sites designed to shut down the capital. Another Buddhist group supporting the protestors is Santi Asoke, the so-called Dhamma Army, led by monk Phra Bodhirak. Begun in the 1970s, this is a small ascetic splinter group of socially engaged Buddhists.

On the government side, many point to the wealthy Dhammakaya sect's support for the Shinawatra clan. Begun in the 1970s, the centre of this sect's activities is an enormous futuristic shrine just north of Bangkok whose huge dome is encrusted with thousands of gold Buddha statues.

A recent opinion piece in the Bangkok Post criticised Dhammakaya's association with the powerful Shinawatras, saying it 'has heightened public concern that the Dhammakaya's capitalist version of Buddhism — that money can buy merit and nirvana — will dominate the entire clergy and Thai Buddhism'.

So there are a few monks and some Buddhist groups openly supporting one side or the other in the conflict. But what seems absent is any bigger religious discussion of the morality or basic principles that might guide a way forward. The only cogent discussion in this vein I've seen has come from Sanitsuda Ekachai, an assistant editor at the Bangkok Post in a series of incisive opinion pieces she's written over the last few months.

A few brief quotes give a flavour of her arguments: 'Buddhism teaches tolerance and inter-relatedness of all beings. What kind of Buddhists are we — red (pro-government), yellow (anti-government), or in between — to support violent acts to purge the objects of someone's hatred from the earth?'

'As self-proclaimed Buddhists, we must ask ourselves a few questions too. Should we let hatred prevail over goodwill? Should we allow extremism to lead to more bloodshed? Are our political views worth dying for or having other people killed? ... We don't need monks who side with a particular political camp and fan hatred. We need monks who live by the Buddha's teachings.'

In this time of turmoil and political upheaval, perhaps Thailand needs monks and lay leaders who not only live by the teachings of the Buddha, but who also speak out forcefully in a non-partisan way about them.

http://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article. ... uGT-N9FCk1
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Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby suriyopama » Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:50 am

Before it starts again.... If someone wishes to keep talking about venerable Luang Pu Buddha Issara, Santi Asoke, and the political conflict in Thailand, I would kindly suggest to open another thread, and keep this one strictly for Dhammakaya.

Remember that there was a thread named “Red Shirts arsonists set fire at Wat Onoi” that was talking about that issue, and it was heated-up so much that the entirely thread had to be deleted. It would be a pity if this thread were deleted or hijacked. That would be another victory for the Dhammakaya at the web. 8-)
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby Mkoll » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:23 am

It has all the trappings of a cult from what I've seen and read so far. And to see that it is in bed with the highest echelons of politics in that country is sad news indeed.

:anjali:
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:16 am

suriyopama wrote:My message was immediately deleted, and I received a warning saying that the forum rules do not allow to lobby pro or against organizations. :rules:

While I would not like to inhibit free speech, whatever happened to right speech?
* Badmouthing of other spiritual paths is not allowed.
* Proselyting / evangelizing other paths, which includes, for example, arguing that some other path is superior to the Buddhist path is not allowed.

Doesn't the Dhammakāya foundation come under the heading of "Other Spiritual Paths?" It doesn't seem much like Theravāda Buddhism to me.

Does it really matter what others do or do not do? For our own practice and peace of mind, is it not better to focus on what we ourselves do, and fail to do?
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby suriyopama » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:56 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:While I would not like to inhibit free speech, whatever happened to right speech?
Does it really matter what others do or do not do? For our own practice and peace of mind, is it not better to focus on what we ourselves do, and fail to do?


I know families that had to struggle with very difficult economic situations because they donated too much money, and they were avoiding friendship with "non-believers". But they were not able to see the cause of the problem because their minds were absorbed. Shouldn’t we have a little bit of compassion, and voice concerns about the dangers of the cults?
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Postby Sokehi » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:22 am

Maybe it's another spiritual path, maybe it's just another way to lure spiritually interested people and families to throw their hard earned money out of the window.

Apparently Dhammakaya is using the buddhas teachings to build a new cult on top of it, using the blessed ones good reputation to earn wealth.

But! I'm just here and more knowledgeable people might bring more up to help clarify the picture. So far I would eagerly warn everyone from joyning this new movement - out of compassion.
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko
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