Wat Dhammakaya

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Sokehi
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by Sokehi »

Eventually John Travolta might join the Dhammakaya. I can't wait for a Battlefield Earth like Movie in their weired Pantheon
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

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jameswang
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by jameswang »

Sokehi wrote:They've out-scientologied the Scientology with that Sci-Fi crap. :toilet:
In case others don't get this part, read this:
http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/Xenu-A4.pdf

What if they just copied the Scientology strategy?
In any case, both are sucking their followers dry.
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suriyopama
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by suriyopama »

I have been banned 3 days from the Thai Visa Forum for mentioning the Dhammakaya. :embarassed:

At the section of Thai Politics I said: “The Shinawatra family is closely related with the finances of the brain-washing Dhammakaya Cult. The motto of the Dhammakaya is: 'Donate all your money to us, and you will receive your reward on your next life'. Greed and Corruption is going to destroy Buddhism”.

And I accompanied my message with this revealing picture:
Image

My message was immediately deleted, and I received a warning saying that the forum rules do not allow to lobby pro or against organizations. :rules:
(strange, since at that section of the forum they are constantly insulting the Thai politicians, Police, Army, Judicial System, etc)

Then I posted a message apologizing if I had offended anyone, and I repeated what I wanted to say but without subjective remarks. I just wrote: “The Shinawatra Family is related with the Dhammakaya".

That message was instantly fulminated, and I was punished for 3 days because I had already been warned. :shrug:

At the same thread there were other messages from other people naming the Dhammakaya (because the topic was related to them, but without naming them), and all of them have also been deleted. It seems like the word “Dhammakaya” is absolutely forbidden in the political section of that forum.

I have researched other references to Dhammakaya at the Thai Visa Forum, and I’ve found that most of them are from persons that have been meditating or ordained at their center. Amongst many other things, they claim that Buddha said that all dhammas are annatta, but Dhamma (Nirvana) is atta. They also say that their abbot is an Arahant that has met with the Buddha, who is now reincarnated in a superior heaven.
:alien: :alien: :alien:
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gavesako
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by gavesako »

It is the Dhammakaya strategy to put their people in various key positions (Buddhist organizations, university Buddhist associations, etc.) where they can actively promote their ideology and prevent others from voicing criticism. It would not be surprising if some of the admins there were part of the network as well.
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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gavesako
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by gavesako »

No Buddhist bullets in Thai turmoil
Paul Kay | 23 January 2014

... While this type of extremist Buddhist leadership seems absent in Thailand, and monks do not have a strong presence in the political protests in the Thai capital, there is concern about the partisan involvement of some high profile monks and Buddhist associations.

Well known 58-year-old Luang Pu Buddha Issara, abbot of Or Noi Temple just west of Bangkok, was appointed to oversee one of the seven main anti-government protest sites designed to shut down the capital. Another Buddhist group supporting the protestors is Santi Asoke, the so-called Dhamma Army, led by monk Phra Bodhirak. Begun in the 1970s, this is a small ascetic splinter group of socially engaged Buddhists.

On the government side, many point to the wealthy Dhammakaya sect's support for the Shinawatra clan. Begun in the 1970s, the centre of this sect's activities is an enormous futuristic shrine just north of Bangkok whose huge dome is encrusted with thousands of gold Buddha statues.

A recent opinion piece in the Bangkok Post criticised Dhammakaya's association with the powerful Shinawatras, saying it 'has heightened public concern that the Dhammakaya's capitalist version of Buddhism — that money can buy merit and nirvana — will dominate the entire clergy and Thai Buddhism'.

So there are a few monks and some Buddhist groups openly supporting one side or the other in the conflict. But what seems absent is any bigger religious discussion of the morality or basic principles that might guide a way forward. The only cogent discussion in this vein I've seen has come from Sanitsuda Ekachai, an assistant editor at the Bangkok Post in a series of incisive opinion pieces she's written over the last few months.

A few brief quotes give a flavour of her arguments: 'Buddhism teaches tolerance and inter-relatedness of all beings. What kind of Buddhists are we — red (pro-government), yellow (anti-government), or in between — to support violent acts to purge the objects of someone's hatred from the earth?'

'As self-proclaimed Buddhists, we must ask ourselves a few questions too. Should we let hatred prevail over goodwill? Should we allow extremism to lead to more bloodshed? Are our political views worth dying for or having other people killed? ... We don't need monks who side with a particular political camp and fan hatred. We need monks who live by the Buddha's teachings.'

In this time of turmoil and political upheaval, perhaps Thailand needs monks and lay leaders who not only live by the teachings of the Buddha, but who also speak out forcefully in a non-partisan way about them.

http://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article. ... uGT-N9FCk1
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

Access to Insight - Theravada texts
Ancient Buddhist Texts - Translations and history of Pali texts
Dhammatalks.org - Sutta translations
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suriyopama
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by suriyopama »

Before it starts again.... If someone wishes to keep talking about venerable Luang Pu Buddha Issara, Santi Asoke, and the political conflict in Thailand, I would kindly suggest to open another thread, and keep this one strictly for Dhammakaya.

Remember that there was a thread named “Red Shirts arsonists set fire at Wat Onoi” that was talking about that issue, and it was heated-up so much that the entirely thread had to be deleted. It would be a pity if this thread were deleted or hijacked. That would be another victory for the Dhammakaya at the web. 8-)
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Mkoll
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by Mkoll »

It has all the trappings of a cult from what I've seen and read so far. And to see that it is in bed with the highest echelons of politics in that country is sad news indeed.

:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

suriyopama wrote:My message was immediately deleted, and I received a warning saying that the forum rules do not allow to lobby pro or against organizations. :rules:
While I would not like to inhibit free speech, whatever happened to right speech?
* Badmouthing of other spiritual paths is not allowed.
* Proselyting / evangelizing other paths, which includes, for example, arguing that some other path is superior to the Buddhist path is not allowed.
Doesn't the Dhammakāya foundation come under the heading of "Other Spiritual Paths?" It doesn't seem much like Theravāda Buddhism to me.

Does it really matter what others do or do not do? For our own practice and peace of mind, is it not better to focus on what we ourselves do, and fail to do?
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suriyopama
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by suriyopama »

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote: While I would not like to inhibit free speech, whatever happened to right speech?
Does it really matter what others do or do not do? For our own practice and peace of mind, is it not better to focus on what we ourselves do, and fail to do?
I know families that had to struggle with very difficult economic situations because they donated too much money, and they were avoiding friendship with "non-believers". But they were not able to see the cause of the problem because their minds were absorbed. Shouldn’t we have a little bit of compassion, and voice concerns about the dangers of the cults?
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Sokehi
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by Sokehi »

Maybe it's another spiritual path, maybe it's just another way to lure spiritually interested people and families to throw their hard earned money out of the window.

Apparently Dhammakaya is using the buddhas teachings to build a new cult on top of it, using the blessed ones good reputation to earn wealth.

But! I'm just here and more knowledgeable people might bring more up to help clarify the picture. So far I would eagerly warn everyone from joyning this new movement - out of compassion.
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

https://www.youtube.com/user/Repeataarrr
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

suriyopama wrote:I know families that had to struggle with very difficult economic situations because they donated too much money, and they were avoiding friendship with "non-believers". But they were not able to see the cause of the problem because their minds were absorbed. Shouldn’t we have a little bit of compassion, and voice concerns about the dangers of the cults?
The true teachings of the Buddha are freely available, even if they are hard to distinguish from false teachings. Anyone who is wise can learn them. We do not need to be concerned with those who follow cults or wrong paths. Just teach the Dhamma, neither disparaging nor condoning others. Those who have the necessary wisdom to understand will do so. Those who have past bad kamma will not listen — being themselves motivated by greed they will donate to the greedy. If one attacks evil-doers, the gullible will defend their own teachers, and close their ears to your criticisms. So what is there to gain from this?

There are plenty of Theravāda monks with the same fault of greed, who amplify the benefits of giving charity, and downplay the benefits of study and practice. Of all the Theravāda monks who have nothing to do with the Dhammakāya, what proportion of them accept and make use of money? I reckon it is well over 90%. Should we concern ourselves with those millions in donations given to shameless Theravādin monks by gullible devotees who think that such adhamma dāna is meritorious?

I say, do not trouble yourself with that. Teach the genuine Dhamma, and practice it as well as you know how. If you cannot practice it perfectly, teach it anyway, but be ready to admit your own faults and limitations. To see the faults of others is easy, but it doesn't lead towards the cessation of suffering.

Now is the Dhamma-ending age. Those with good perfections are rare. Many place their faith in amulets, and anxiously “accumulate merit” hoping to meet Metteyya Buddha, or to enjoy celestial pleasures after death. The flood of false teachings cannot be turned back by anyone until the next Buddha appears. Meanwhile, the true teachings of Gotama Buddha are still extant — but it takes sincere and diligent effort to find them, and having found them, to practice them well.
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Sokehi
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by Sokehi »

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:If one attacks evil-doers, the gullible will defend their own teachers, and close their ears to your criticisms. So what is there to gain from this?
Sadhu Bhante, thank you for this great posting :anjali:
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

https://www.youtube.com/user/Repeataarrr
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Mkoll
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by Mkoll »

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:There are plenty of Theravāda monks with the same fault of greed, who amplify the benefits of giving charity, and downplay the benefits of study and practice. Of all the Theravāda monks who have nothing to do with the Dhammakāya, what proportion of them accept and make use of money? I reckon it is well over 90%. Should we concern ourselves with those millions in donations given to shameless Theravādin monks by gullible devotees who think that such adhamma dāna is meritorious?
Is it really that bad, Bhante? That really is sad. If there is one thing that I have absolutely no doubt about in Buddhism it's this: the Buddha was an ascetic and he taught an ascetic way of life to the monks.
311. Just as kusa grass wrongly handled cuts the hand, even so, a recluse's life wrongly lived drags one to states of woe.

313. If anything is to be done, let one do it with sustained vigor. A lax monastic life stirs up the dust of passions all the more.
Dhp

:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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suriyopama
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by suriyopama »

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:The true teachings of the Buddha are freely available, even if they are hard to distinguish from false teachings. Anyone who is wise can learn them. We do not need to be concerned with those who follow cults or wrong paths. Just teach the Dhamma, neither disparaging nor condoning others. Those who have the necessary wisdom to understand will do so. Those who have past bad kamma will not listen — being themselves motivated by greed they will donate to the greedy. If one attacks evil-doers, the gullible will defend their own teachers, and close their ears to your criticisms. So what is there to gain from this?
....
Thank you for your words, Bhante. That is what I needed to listen at this moment. :namaste:

I have opened a new thread in order to develop that interesting topic. How much to engage? When and how should we say STOP in order to bring our practice to a higher level? As laymen, what is our compromise and duties with our society?.

Please, follow up here: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=19723
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pilgrim
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by pilgrim »

moved this to another thread
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