Fear, aversion and sleepiness

Discussion of Samatha bhavana and Jhana bhavana.

Fear, aversion and sleepiness

Postby clw_uk » Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:06 pm

Has anyone ever experience fear and aversion or excitement in the mind when approaching Samadhi?


Quite often I get this, like the ego and the hindrances (Mara) are fighting back against their abandonment (when scared) or excited that I about to "achieve" something.


Does anyone have any advice, if you experience this, on how to get past it?



Also, does anyone else have trouble with being aware when tired (like first thing in the morning) and how to overcome/deal with it. I've tried just being aware of the tiredness, but I just fall asleep sitting up lol :(
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: Fear, aversion and sleepiness

Postby purple planet » Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:37 pm

Also, does anyone else have trouble with being aware when tired (like first thing in the morning) and how to overcome/deal with it. I've tried just being aware of the tiredness, but I just fall asleep sitting up lol :(


try being aware when there is weak tiredness practice on it and than you can deal with the strong one better- the more meditation the more chance to run into some weak tiredness to note

so tiredness is just like everything else i guess - the stronger your mindfulness is you can deal with stronger hindrances

and also i heared more than once and tryed and i think it works - if you go to sleep mindful you wake up mindful - so maybe 20 minutes before sleeping make sure you make all your moves mindfully

sleepiness is my greatest problem at the moment - but when i meditate a lot it practically dosnt exist for me
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Re: Fear, aversion and sleepiness

Postby Babadhari » Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:52 pm

clw_uk wrote:Has anyone ever experience fear and aversion or excitement in the mind when approaching Samadhi?


Quite often I get this, like the ego and the hindrances (Mara) are fighting back against their abandonment (when scared) or excited that I about to "achieve" something.


Does anyone have any advice, if you experience this, on how to get past it?



Also, does anyone else have trouble with being aware when tired (like first thing in the morning) and how to overcome/deal with it. I've tried just being aware of the tiredness, but I just fall asleep sitting up lol :(




hi clw_uk

a few years ago when i began meditating first , as my mind would begin to quieten i found my state of awareness begin to balloon and all of a sudden i would get a rush of energy surging upwards through my body resulting in a sort of 'pop' in my head.
these occurences became quiet disturbing at the time. i found myself becoming afraid to meditate too deeply as these sensations did create a lot of fear in my mind.
these only stopped after my first retreat, where it happened more intensely than before to the point where i feared i would either die or go insane. i think it was faith in the teacher and instuction that allowed the experience to just pass.
looking back now, i think it was quite benificial because it allowed me to overcome 'the fear of going all the way' so to speak.
it may have been related to my uses of stimulants and hallucinogens previosly.

in relation to a sleepy head in the morning ive found cold showers jolt my system out of drowsiness but they're not the most pleasant start tot the morning

all the best with your practice
Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion.
Aflame, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs ......

Seeing thus, the disciple of the Noble One grows disenchanted. SN 35.28
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Re: Fear, aversion and sleepiness

Postby culaavuso » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:08 pm

clw_uk wrote:Has anyone ever experience fear and aversion or excitement in the mind when approaching Samadhi?
Quite often I get this, like the ego and the hindrances (Mara) are fighting back against their abandonment (when scared) or excited that I about to "achieve" something.
Does anyone have any advice, if you experience this, on how to get past it?


Investigate the source. The fear or aversion may be rooted in delusions about what might happen if the process continues. The nature of the delusions may not be immediately obvious at first without further introspection. Beware the tendencies of mind to try to justify the fear and aversion during such introspection, however. The purpose is not justification but to see the faulty perspective behind the fear.

Try to persist despite the fear. Situations arise in daily life where sometimes we have to put ourselves in a scary situation, where that fear may or may not be justified. Understanding that just going through with it is the best course of action can allow the fear to just do its thing and pass. There is a useful quote in the "Dune" books by Frank Herbert known as the litany against fear:

Frank Herbert wrote:I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.


Regarding excitement, again investigate the source, but from a different perspective. With fear and aversion, there's an underlying delusion that something valuable might be lost. With excitement, there's an underlying delusion that something might be gained. Attaining Samadhi is not winning the game, and even such a mental state is not you or what you are. It's a positive outcome for the practice, but if you can see it in terms of not-self then you can view it with a perspective more like sympathetic joy for the aggregates and less like greed for personal gain. With sympathetic joy and equanimity present, the greedy and excited tendency of mind is undermined.

clw_uk wrote:Also, does anyone else have trouble with being aware when tired (like first thing in the morning) and how to overcome/deal with it.


More active mental processes can be used to keep the mind awake and alert, such as body scanning approaches or trying to follow the breath in more than one place at once.

SN 46.53
SN 46.53: Aggi Sutta wrote:"In the same way, monks, on any occasion the mind is sluggish, that is the wrong time to develop calm as a factor for awakening, concentration as a factor for awakening, equanimity as a factor for awakening. Why is that? The sluggish mind is hard to raise up by those mental qualities.


SN 46.53: Aggi Sutta wrote:"In the same way, monks, on any occasion when the mind is sluggish, that is the right time to develop analysis of qualities as a factor for awakening, persistence as a factor for awakening, rapture as a factor for awakening. Why is that? The sluggish mind is easy to raise up by those mental qualities.
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Re: Fear, aversion and sleepiness

Postby SarathW » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:20 pm

Hi CLW
I experienced the fear of death when I started meditation log time ago.
I was so scared that I will not be able to come back to this world again!
You can eliminate the fear by acquiring the knowledge of different stages of Jhana and Nana .
:)
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Re: Fear, aversion and sleepiness

Postby Modus.Ponens » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:20 am

The best way I found so far to deal with sleepiness, in addition to sleeping the necessary time, is to accept it. I often fought the sleepiness. Epic battles! :mrgreen: Then one day I decided to just accept it exactly as it is. Only after accepting it can you try to navigate through it, instead of fighting it. You will still have a sleepy meditation, although less sleepy. But, more importantly to me, I can now meditate with sleepiness and not feel frustrated.

It worked for me, to some extent. Maybe it will work for you.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
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Re: Fear, aversion and sleepiness

Postby Strive4Karuna » Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:53 pm

From my experience, in my situation...when I came close to deeper levels of meditation and fear of death started kicking in I realized after a long time....my mindfulness was lacking and not there..... so I kept my concentration but applied mindfulness to the body and this helped me tremendously to start to overcome that stage of being afraid of death.

Also, another thing that might help, is before entering meditation, reflect on your past experiences of fear in meditation and get yourself mentally prepared. I reflected and it helped me get over my fear.


Mindfulness is also one of the aids to sleepiness.
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Re: Fear, aversion and sleepiness

Postby clw_uk » Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:19 pm

thanks for all the replies :smile:
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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