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With wrong view or without wrong view? - Dhamma Wheel

With wrong view or without wrong view?

Discussion of Abhidhamma and related Commentaries

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SarathW
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With wrong view or without wrong view?

Postby SarathW » Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:08 am

This is a very important teaching of Buddha and not directly discussed in this forum.
================
Page 28:
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/abhidhamma.pdf
(Consciousness Rooted in Attachment)
1. One consciousness, unprompted, accompanied
by pleasure, and connected with wrong view,
2. One consciousness, prompted, accompanied by
pleasure, and connected with wrong view,
3. One consciousness, unprompted, accompanied
by pleasure, and disconnected with wrong view,
4. One consciousness, prompted, accompanied by
pleasure, and disconnected with wrong view,
5. One consciousness, unprompted, accompanied
Etc.
============================
The way I understand, this is a very important teaching and will answer most of difficult questions. Eg. Can I kill someone for self defence?
Evan Sotapanna does unwholesome kamma but disconnected with wrong view.
It appear however the weight of wholesome kamma or unwholesome kamma vary with the action done with wrong view or without wrong view.

=========================
This matter also discussed here.
AN 3.99: Lonaphala Sutta wrote:"Suppose that a man were to drop a salt crystal into a small amount of water in a cup. What do you think? Would the water in the cup become salty because of the salt crystal, and unfit to drink?"

"Yes, lord. Why is that? There being only a small amount of water in the cup, it would become salty because of the salt crystal, and unfit to drink."

"Now suppose that a man were to drop a salt crystal into the River Ganges. What do you think? Would the water in the River Ganges become salty because of the salt crystal, and unfit to drink?"

"No, lord. Why is that? There being a great mass of water in the River Ganges, it would not become salty because of the salt crystal or unfit to drink."

"In the same way, there is the case where a trifling evil deed done by one individual [the first] takes him to hell; and there is the case where the very same sort of trifling deed done by the other individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment.

'Now, a trifling evil act done by what sort of individual takes him to hell? There is the case where a certain individual is undeveloped in the body, [2] undeveloped in virtue, undeveloped in mind [i.e., painful feelings can invade the mind and stay there], undeveloped in discernment: restricted, small-hearted, dwelling with suffering. A trifling evil act done by this sort of individual takes him to hell.

'Now, a trifling evil act done by what sort of individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment? There is the case where a certain individual is developed in the body,[3] developed in virtue, developed in mind [i.e., painful feelings cannot invade the mind and stay there], developed in discernment: unrestricted, large-hearted, dwelling with the immeasurable. A trifling evil act done by this sort of individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment.

================================
What is your understanding about this topic?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

culaavuso
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Re: With wrong view or without wrong view?

Postby culaavuso » Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:28 am



SarathW
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Re: With wrong view or without wrong view?

Postby SarathW » Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:19 am

Sadhu,Sadhu,Sadhu

But I have read, that a person doing a wrong act with the knowledge that he is doing something wrong has less kamma effect.
Say, I know killing is bad but I killed my enemy with self defence.
My question is why Abhidamma went into all this trouble to have this 12 types of immoral consciousness.
:)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

culaavuso
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Re: With wrong view or without wrong view?

Postby culaavuso » Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:28 am



SarathW
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Re: With wrong view or without wrong view?

Postby SarathW » Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:49 am

Thanks
Any Sutta reference for " unprompted, accompanied
by pleasure" etc.?
:thinking:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

culaavuso
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Re: With wrong view or without wrong view?

Postby culaavuso » Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:55 am



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Mkoll
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Re: With wrong view or without wrong view?

Postby Mkoll » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:11 am

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

binocular
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Re: With wrong view or without wrong view?

Postby binocular » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:42 am


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mikenz66
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Re: With wrong view or without wrong view?

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:02 am


SarathW
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Re: With wrong view or without wrong view?

Postby SarathW » Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:01 am

Joseph Goldstein discuss why doing unwholesome action with the knowledge is better.

http://www.dharmaseed.org/teacher/96/talk/298/
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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retrofuturist
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Re: With wrong view or without wrong view?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:26 am

Greetings,

This may or may not be what Mike was looking for, but it's related...

AN 3.99: Lonaphala Sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

dhamma follower
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Re: With wrong view or without wrong view?

Postby dhamma follower » Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:23 am


dhamma follower
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Re: With wrong view or without wrong view?

Postby dhamma follower » Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:39 am


SarathW
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Re: With wrong view or without wrong view?

Postby SarathW » Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:14 am

Even if you have to do an evil deed, do it with remorse!

http://www.tipitaka.net/tipitaka/dhp/ve ... ?verse=157
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”


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