SN 1.59 Uppatha 2 Partner

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SN 1.59 Uppatha 2 Partner

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:23 am

SN 1.59 SN 59 Uppatha 2 SN i 38 <SN i 84> Partner
Translated by Bhikkhu Bodhi


http://suttacentral.net/sn1.59/en

“What is a person’s partner?
What is it that instructs him?
Taking delight in what is a mortal
Released from all suffering?”

“Faith is a person’s partner,
And wisdom is what instructs him.
Taking delight in Nibbana, a mortal
Is released from all suffering.”
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Re: SN 1.59 Uppatha 2 Partner

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:26 am

SN 1.59 Companion
Translated by John Ireland


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ml#vagga-1

[Devataa:]
What is man's (good) companion?
What is it that instructs him?
And what enjoying is a mortal
From all suffering released?

[The Lord:]
Faith is man's (good) companion,
It is wisdom that instructs him,
And Nibbaana enjoying, a mortal
From all suffering is released.
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Re: SN 1.59 Uppatha 2 Partner

Postby culaavuso » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:07 pm

SN 1.59 The Second
(unknown translator)

http://www.metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/3Samyutta-Nikaya/Samyutta1/01-Devata-Samyutta/06-Jaravaggo-e.html

What is the second to a man? What rules over him?
Man, who has to die, attached to what, will be released from unpleasantness?

Faith is second to a man. Wisdom, rules over him.
The dying one, attached to extinction is released from all unpleasantness.
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Re: SN 1.59 Uppatha 2 Partner

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:12 pm

I believe the translator is Sister Uppalavna.
See
http://suttacentral.net/sn1.59
http://www.metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pit ... index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sister_Uppalavanna

The best I can say is that that translation illustrates how tricky the translation of Pali verse to English can be...

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Re: SN 1.59 Uppatha 2 Partner

Postby pulga » Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:51 am

9. Dutiyasuttavaṇṇanā -- Sāratthappakāsinī

59. Navame kissa cābhiratoti kismiṃ abhirato. Dutiyāti sugatiñceva nibbānañca gacchantassa dutiyikā. Paññā cenaṃ pasāsatīti paññā etaṃ purisaṃ ‘‘idaṃ karohi, idaṃ mākarī’’ti anusāsati. Navamaṃ.


Dutiyā is a companion going to a fortunate destination and extinction. Paññā is that person who advises, "Do this, do not do this.".
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Re: SN 1.59 Uppatha 2 Partner

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:13 am

Saṃyutta Nikāya 1
6. Jarāvagga
59. Dutiyasutta


    “Kiṃsu dutiyā purisassa hoti,
    Kiṃsu cenaṃ pasāsati;
    Kissa cābhirato macco,
    Sabbadukkhā pamuccatī”ti.

    “Saddhā dutiyā purisassa hoti,
    Paññā cenaṃ pasāsati;
    Nibbānābhirato macco,
    Sabbadukkhā pamuccatī”ti.

http://suttacentral.net/sn1.59/pi

If you click on Pali-English Dictionary on the above linked page you can get some idea of the structure by hovering over the words. It's also good to try reading it aloud. It is poetry, after all.

:anjali:
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Re: SN 1.59 Uppatha 2 Partner

Postby pulga » Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:25 pm

mikenz66 wrote:If you click on Pali-English Dictionary on the above linked page you can get some idea of the structure by hovering over the words. It's also good to try reading it aloud. It is poetry, after all.


I would read kiṃsu, not as kati, but as kiṃ su, i.e. "what?" with an interrogative particle (su) attached.

Since marriage in Indian culture is so heavily stressed and dutiyā is in the feminine to agree with saddhā I wonder whether it's a play on the word. The commentary identifies it with dutiyikā which only appears in the feminine in the Suttas and means "wife", i.e. a female companion.
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Re: SN 1.59 Uppatha 2 Partner

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:21 pm

Hi Pulga,

Yes, although that is a useful feature of the SuttaCentral website it is clear that, especially in poetry such as this, translating word-by-word is not likely to give particularly accurate results, and such a tool would not be a substitute for proper study of the language in context. That's an interesting point you make about the play on words. Alas, my Pali does not yet rise beyond word-by-word dissection...

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