Looking for more info on Muslim violence against Buddhists

[Modus.Ponens]

On the other hand, they can do the sensible thing and downplay or totally ignore the scriptures they disagree with, just as the rest of us do. I've been using Christianity as a convenient comparison and I could do so again but I will be more ecumenical and ask you to think about how many Western Buddhists are practising homosexuals (forbidden) and how many Jews eat pork (forbidden) or marry outside the faith.
Or I could use the argument from statistics: how many Muslims have not attacked Christians, Hindus or Buddhists in the last year? How many Muslims live quiet, moral, law-abiding lives rather than going on jihad?


Kim

I was going to try to respond to your argument, but instead I'm going straight to the heart of the matter. Since you are buddhist I assume you don't believe in god. Therefore either you believe that mohammed was talking with some kind of deva or that he invented the whole thing. Being completely honest, which one you think is more likely? Exactly. Now why do you need to defend those "teachings"?

I don't defend the teachings. I defend the people who (mostly) were born to them, grew up with them and live (mostly) reasonably moral and honest lives - just as I defend the people who grew up with Christianity or Buddhism or any other religion, whether I believe their religion or not.

Respond to my argument if you like - I'm curious as to how you would go about it.


Kim

Well then we agree, to a point. And the problem with leting the right wing explore islamophobia is things like the war in Iraq, or the war in Afganistan. That's tragic. Americans probably don't like to think about this but, although 3000 people died in the twin towers atack, and it was tragic, the most conservative estimate for the number of iraqis killed is about 110 000 (the Lancet, a very respectable scientific publication, estimated about 600 000 deaths). In other words, it was like at least 36 twin towers atacks there. And there was absolutely no reason for the american population to allow this other than islamophobia. Many people were against that war, but not enough. I know you're australian, but this is a consequence of only leting fascists say what we all feel, to some degree. The fascists don't care about the human beings. At all.

But in response to your previous argument, they could do the sensible thing. But a lot of them don't. And radicalism seems to be spreading, at least in the middle east. How can this be dealt with?

Homosexuality is only forbidden in tibetan buddhism, afaik. And i think it's not even an imperative. What I know is that some of them think that homosexual acts (or even oral sexual acts between heterosexuals) lead to imbalance in the energy system. But I'm not aware of it saying anywhere that homosexuals should be killed, or some nonsense like that. But anyway, that's a good point. Let me tell you: the muslims who completely ignore the violent parts of the quran and hadiths are among the nicest people out there. And if islam could be turned into that, it would be a very positive force in the world. But in the present I don't think it is interpreted that way by too many muslims. And I don't know what the hell should we do except telling the truth with carefulness _ something that I very often wasn't able to do.

Those would be useful statistics to assess the situation. But it has to go a little deeper. How many muslims, although do not participate in violent acts, agree with them? This is very tricky and I don't know how to really deal with this. I only know that the present day attitude isn't working.

[chownah]

There have been some comments indicating that since the Bible contains a lot of saber rattling and war making that Christians can be said to be part of a religion which advocates violence in the same way that Islamic scriptures advocates violence. I think this sentiment comes from a lack of understanding of the structure of the Bible.

The Bible has two parts namely the Old Testament and the New Testament. The Old Testament is mainly about Jewish history and how the Jews believed that a great prophet or savior would be born into Jewish society and that this savior would lead Judaism into a new era. The New Testament is about Jesus of Nazareth being the long promised prophet predicted by the Jews in the Old Testament and the doctrine which Jesus taught and how his early followers organized themselves and some of their communications.

The Old Testament is the part of the Bible with the references to violence and wars....it is about the history of Judaism and it is included in the Bible as an introduction for the coming of a savior......which Christians take to be Jesus of Nazareth. The Old Testament does not contain any of the doctrine which Jesus of Nazareth taught.....the violence and wars of the Old Testament is NOT what Jesus of Nazareth taught.

The New Testament is the part of the Bible containing the doctrine which Jesus of Nazareth taught. Many Jews were expecting the savior to be a mighty warrior who would raise a big army and then go and fight a righteous war......they were very disappointed with Jesus in that he taught love, compassion, and non-violence.....they openly talked about how Jesus could not be their savior as he was not advocating wielding of power much less wielding it himself. There are a few quotes from the New Testament which I think we're meant to be poetic in nature and which might be construed to be violent....I forget what they are but it seems like many people are quick to point them out as if it proved that Jesus taught violence but if you read the New Testament in full it is obvious that Jesus did not advocate violence or war.

I hope I have clearly shown that the doctrine taught by Jesus of Nazareth did not condone violence or war and also how it is that some people have come to the wrong conclusion that Christian doctrine includes fighting righteous wars. In my view to say that Christianity and Islam are similar in that their main prophets both advocated war is wrong as the doctrine taught by Jesus of Nazareth was markedly non-violent.....remember "turn the other cheek"?

This is not to say that all Christians follow the doctrines that Jesus of Nazareth taught......what I am saying is that the doctrine which Jesus of Nazareth taught does not condone and even condemns the many violent acts perpetrated by Christians in the name of their religion.
chownah

[lyndon taylor]

Half of the Quran is devoted to the words and stories of Jesus(Issa), I don't think any of you have actually read it, like I said before if you quote texts out of context you can get the same level of negative messages from the bible.

[daverupa]

Invective rhetoric and off-topic comparative religion discussions can happen elsewhere than this thread, which has a carefully defined OP, friends.

[mettafuture]

Another news report:
Lone Buddhist Widow Holds Out in War-Torn Thai Village

Thousands of Buddhists have been killed by Muslims over the last 800 years.

How Buddhist are we going to be about this?

That's for Buddhists to decide. But this thread isn't about that.

Half of the Quran is devoted to the words and stories of Jesus(Issa)

And the other half isn't.

I don't think any of you have actually read it, like I said before if you quote texts out of context you can get the same level of negative messages from the bible.

I've read several translations of the Quran, and I've read the Hadith once.

[Kim OHara]

Invective rhetoric and off-topic comparative religion discussions can happen elsewhere than this thread, which has a carefully defined OP, friends.

Good point - and I, for one, will stay on topic if everyone else does. Fair?


Kim

[Modus.Ponens]

Invective rhetoric and off-topic comparative religion discussions can happen elsewhere than this thread, which has a carefully defined OP, friends.

Good point - and I, for one, will stay on topic if everyone else does. Fair?


Kim

Completely fair.

[binocular]

How Buddhist are we going to be about this?

That's for Buddhists to decide. But this thread isn't about that.

You're just "Looking for more info on Muslim violence against Buddhists" ...

Ok, so "what if" they were all caterpillars and Blue-Tits in past lives - I'm baffled as to how that addresses the present situation between Buddhists and Muslims, or indeed, the actual OP #1.

What one thinks about karma and rebirth certainly addresses what one thinks is going on in any given situation (not just the present situation between Buddhists and Muslims) and shapes how one will approach thinking and acting about it (including how and why one collects info on something).

[mettafuture]

How Buddhist are we going to be about this?

That's for Buddhists to decide. But this thread isn't about that.

You're just "Looking for more info on Muslim violence against Buddhists" ...

That's right, mainly because it's being under reported. I feel it's important we know what's happening with the Sangha and our Dharma friends around the world. If you want to debate or natter about the political and philosophical implications of these events, you should start a new thread.