The Five Aggregates

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Mkoll
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Re: The Five Aggregates

Post by Mkoll »

SamKR wrote:
Spiny Norman wrote:
chownah wrote:Spiny Norman,
How could you possibly determine if colors are subjective or not?
Colours are just the names we give to different wavelengths of light. And if there is no light then there is no perception of colour. Or am I missing the point?
Experience of a color and the corresponding wavelength are not the same thing, although in our experience these are usually correlated and consistent, and this is a very important point to understand. There can be perception of color even without "physical" light.
Do you mean like in dreams and imagination and other mental visualizations?
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
SamKR
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Re: The Five Aggregates

Post by SamKR »

Yes, in dreams and astral projections and experiences like that. Also chromesthesia.
culaavuso
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Re: The Five Aggregates

Post by culaavuso »

SamKR wrote: Experience of a color and the corresponding wavelength are not the same thing, although in our experience these are usually correlated and consistent, and this is a very important point to understand. There can be perception of color even without "physical" light.
A few cases that are interesting to consider along these lines: a color blind person demonstrably has a different experience of a sight even though the same wavelengths are present.

In terms of perceptions, sometimes people who are not color blind can see the same thing and one person might say "that's blue" while another person says "that's purple" and a third person says "it's a blueish purple". Even if they are having the same visual experience, which isn't something that can be compared to know, they are at least using labels based on different aspects of that experience with different emphasis. Similarly, some people have a large color vocabulary while others have a small color vocabulary. Those with a small vocabulary would use a single label for a range of various shades that a person with a larger vocabulary might distinguish by name.

Regarding the perception of color without "physical" light, dreams and phosphenes are both worth considering.
Spiny Norman
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Re: The Five Aggregates

Post by Spiny Norman »

culaavuso wrote: A few cases that are interesting to consider along these lines: a color blind person demonstrably has a different experience of a sight even though the same wavelengths are present.
Yes, that's true, as I've acknowledged. On the other hand, I used to be involved in theatre stage lighting, and I remember the gel catalogue had over 100 different named colours ( gels are the colour filters that go in front of spotlamps ).
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Spiny Norman
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Re: The Five Aggregates

Post by Spiny Norman »

chownah wrote: So, in this sense, experiencing color is entirely subjective...
I disagree. The process of colour perception is partly subjective, yes, but not entirely. And I'd suggest the same is true of perception via the other sense organs, it's a process of dependent arising. I also think that's supported by how the suttas describe it, since contact cannot arise without the presence of visible form.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
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