Population Control

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
ricebowl
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:26 pm

Re: Population Control

Post by ricebowl »

Pondera wrote:You're more than welcome in Canada. Plenty of space. Lots of womens. Lots of coffee shops for people with degrees to advance into managerial positions...
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... ment_Index

Canada's HDI is 0.911 with a per capita GDP (PPP) of $43,146 in 2012, i.e. Canadians are slightly less stressed because they earn lesser
Singapore's HDI is 0.895 with a per capita GDP (PPP) of $61,046 in 2012, i.e. Singaporeans are slightly more stressed because they earn more
My government will gladly welcome you on all circumstances.
Eightfolder
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:49 pm

Re: Population Control

Post by Eightfolder »

I found this topic interesting and enjoyed the postings. Ricebowl brought up the core issue that all humans have to contend with; the unique constraints and boundaries within each and every society. While these constraints change according to culture, political context, and educational access, the fact remains that the principles and practices of The Dhamma can help anyone who is serious enough and lucky enough to get their hands on the right information. I recognize Kamma merits everyday which acclumulated in my life under a different philosophy but with very similar ethical teachings as the Buddhist precepts. I have simply adopted the Buddha-Dhamma and all my past good deeds transfer over as well - like a big fat bank account moving to a new country. I took Vipassana (Goenka style) in 2007 but had difficulty staying with the practice. As time went on I persisted and read more. I did another 10 day in 2012 and since have found myself reading and listening to the lectures and teachings of Ven. Nyanaponika Thera, Bhikkhu Bodhi, Ajahn Sumedho, and now Bhante V. who seems to be a rather controverial figure among the old armchair Buddhists! I can't get over the amount of information on the internet alone and all the sites offering the full teachings of Pali Canon. It's a popouri of Dhamma....all over...spilling out onto the people of the world. The only thing I still can't get my head around is this idea of a non-substance like "something" transmigrating or moving on to the next life. Does anyone else have a problem with this concept? I confess to being an atheist, skeptic, etc but with enough faith in humanity and free will to know that we can change our minds and mental processes with work and patience. If I didn't believe I wouldn't be posting here now. But something transferring from one life to the next? Just no evidence for such a process.

8F
culaavuso
Posts: 1363
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:27 pm

Re: Population Control

Post by culaavuso »

Eightfolder wrote:The only thing I still can't get my head around is this idea of a non-substance like "something" transmigrating or moving on to the next life. Does anyone else have a problem with this concept? I confess to being an atheist, skeptic, etc but with enough faith in humanity and free will to know that we can change our minds and mental processes with work and patience. If I didn't believe I wouldn't be posting here now. But something transferring from one life to the next? Just no evidence for such a process.
Light a fire. Put a fresh piece of wood in the fire. A non-substance like "something" (fire) moves from one piece of wood to another. There is no "thing", just cause and effect.

Make a splash in a container of water. Watch the wave travel across the water. A non-substance like "something" (wave) moves across the water. There is no "thing", the water itself isn't moving that distance. There is just cause and effect causing the wave to move across the water.

Generate passion. Observe events passing through the mind. A non-substance like "something" (passion, intentions, feelings) moves from one momentary set of experiences to another. There is no "thing", just cause and effect of mentality.

There are many more interesting responses to this topic in a thread that seems more directly related to the subject called What is rebirth and where does this idea comes from?
Eightfolder
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:49 pm

Re: Population Control

Post by Eightfolder »

Thanks for that link to the topic. I found Bhikkhu Bodhi's article interesting and extremely persuasive but I have ideas of my own about our place in this universe. To see ourselves not as particles but part of a wave is a wonderful metaphor but in the daily business of living we are each accountable for our individual actions. In a constitutional republic or a democracy we have a set of principles and laws that are suppose to govern our actions. We have religions that preach morality with a threat/reward system (hell/heaven) to guide our actions.
And we all know these systems are far from perfect because innocent people get locked up and real criminals run major institutions and governments. Gotoma was said to have said that he "knows" there are other realms of existence although he had not gone to them. Why would such an assertion be made by someone whose every other word seems to rest on a systematic, empirical analysis of the accuracy of the mind?

8F :juggling:
culaavuso
Posts: 1363
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:27 pm

Re: Population Control

Post by culaavuso »

Eightfolder wrote:I found Bhikkhu Bodhi's article interesting and extremely persuasive but I have ideas of my own about our place in this universe. To see ourselves not as particles but part of a wave is a wonderful metaphor but in the daily business of living we are each accountable for our individual actions. In a constitutional republic or a democracy we have a set of principles and laws that are suppose to govern our actions. We have religions that preach morality with a threat/reward system (hell/heaven) to guide our actions.
Individual labels are useful for talking about the world and behaving in the world, but that doesn't mean that just because we put a label on something that it has its own independent existence. A specific fire can be labeled, but that doesn't make the fire any less of a process. A specific wave can be labeled, but that doesn't make the wave a "thing" rather than a process. The label could be useful, however, when trying to direct someone to put out the most dangerous fire in the forest first, or when trying to point someone to a wave that will crush them if they don't take action to avoid it. Individuals interact on the basis of laws and waves each individually encounter waveguides and wave breaks and deal with the consequences as individual waves. Labels are useful approximations that function as tools for accomplishing goals related to those labels, but this does not mean the labels represent absolute truth. Whether you decide to apply a label or not depends on what you're trying to accomplish. Hammers are useful, but they don't serve every purpose. Labels of individuality are similarly useful in some situations, and not in others. The Vinaya uses the tool of labeling individuals, so the notion of these labels is not entirely foreign to the Dhamma and Vinaya.
Eightfolder wrote: Gotoma was said to have said that he "knows" there are other realms of existence although he had not gone to them. Why would such an assertion be made by someone whose every other word seems to rest on a systematic, empirical analysis of the accuracy of the mind?
It doesn't seem that worrying about what someone was said to have said or why they might have said the thing if they said what they're said to have said is really helpful in putting an end to stress and suffering. The suttas in many places quote the Buddha as saying that all he teaches is covered by the four noble truths. Wondering what was said or why only creates doubt and uncertainty without any benefits. If it's impossible to ever definitively answer the question either way, then the answer must not really matter. If the answer really mattered, then there would be a way to discern the answer through personal experience.
Darrell Huff wrote: A difference is a difference only if it makes a difference
MN 63
MN 63: Cula-Malunkyovada Sutta wrote: So, Malunkyaputta, remember what is undeclared by me as undeclared, and what is declared by me as declared. And what is undeclared by me? 'The cosmos is eternal,' is undeclared by me. 'The cosmos is not eternal,' is undeclared by me. 'The cosmos is finite'... 'The cosmos is infinite'... 'The soul & the body are the same'... 'The soul is one thing and the body another'... 'After death a Tathagata exists'... 'After death a Tathagata does not exist'... 'After death a Tathagata both exists & does not exist'... 'After death a Tathagata neither exists nor does not exist,' is undeclared by me.

And why are they undeclared by me? Because they are not connected with the goal, are not fundamental to the holy life. They do not lead to disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, calming, direct knowledge, self-awakening, Unbinding. That's why they are undeclared by me.

And what is declared by me? 'This is stress,' is declared by me. 'This is the origination of stress,' is declared by me. 'This is the cessation of stress,' is declared by me. 'This is the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress,' is declared by me. And why are they declared by me? Because they are connected with the goal, are fundamental to the holy life. They lead to disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, calming, direct knowledge, self-awakening, Unbinding. That's why they are declared by me.
Eightfolder
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:49 pm

Re: Population Control

Post by Eightfolder »

:woohoo:

Great words of wisdom! Thank you and quite right....all that inquiry and continuous skeptism does nothing to reduce my suffering and I am determined to reduce my suffering! Very helpful post. Well said...well said!


8F

:jumping:
Post Reply