Anapana versus Vipassana Meditation in Goenka style

Discussion of Satipatthana bhavanā and Vipassana bhavana.

Anapana versus Vipassana Meditation in Goenka style

Postby redmaverick » Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:37 am

My mind has a natural inclination towards Anapana.

I can do Anapana meditation effortlessly but am finding it strenuous to do body scanning continuously. I usually do initial 15 minutes of Anapana and then do some body scanning from top to bottom and bottom to top twice each and then take rest in Anapana for a while then do another set of Vipassana. I conclude the rest of the meditation with Anapana.

Should I try to decrease Anapana and then struggle to continuously do Vipassana. I want to maximize the efficiency of the meditation process.

Also during body scanning at retreat, I was able to somehow scan inside the body to a certain extent. Now at home I am just scanning at the surface level. Should I make an attempt to go inside my body or should I only do that once I have a very strong level of concentration?
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Re: Anapana versus Vipassana Meditation in Goenka style

Postby Babadhari » Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:49 am

hi

i only practice anapana at present but from what i remember i believe you should start scanning internally when there are no strong sensations left on the surface of the body.
it been a few years since my Goenke retreat so im sure someone else here will have more thorough advise for you
Last edited by Babadhari on Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anapana versus Vipassana Meditation in Goenka style

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:23 am

Members,

Please stick to the topic, which is a question about a specific technique.
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Re: Anapana versus Vipassana Meditation in Goenka style

Postby Monkey Mind » Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:31 am

The best advice is to contact the center where you sat the 10-day and ask these questions. An assistant teacher will respond.

Also, check out the Q & A section of the old student website. Similar questions are posed there.
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.

Sutta Nipāta 3.710
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Re: Anapana versus Vipassana Meditation in Goenka style

Postby Mkoll » Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:09 am

Monkey Mind wrote:The best advice is to contact the center where you sat the 10-day and ask these questions. An assistant teacher will respond.

Also, check out the Q & A section of the old student website. Similar questions are posed there.
:goodpost:

Don't worry too much if you are having trouble with the scanning. I'm sure you'll get better at it with practice!

You can also get a lot of value from anapanasati as the Buddha mentions in MN 118.

"Mindfulness of in-&-out breathing, when developed & pursued, is of great fruit, of great benefit. Mindfulness of in-&-out breathing, when developed & pursued, brings the four frames of reference to their culmination. The four frames of reference, when developed & pursued, bring the seven factors for awakening to their culmination. The seven factors for awakening, when developed & pursued, bring clear knowing & release to their culmination."
Peace,
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Re: Anapana versus Vipassana Meditation in Goenka style

Postby redmaverick » Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:42 pm

I don't think I remember the AT name for the vipassana course. I will contact the center and see if I can get hold of the email address. It's good to know that Anapana was spoken highly of by Buddha. I have no idea what the four frames of reference even mean. I will google and find out.

Thanks for the practical advice folks!
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Re: Anapana versus Vipassana Meditation in Goenka style

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:49 pm

redmaverick wrote: I have no idea what the four frames of reference even mean.

Four foundations of mindfulness is the more usual translation:
Satipatthāna: the 4 'foundations of awareness or mindfulness', lit. 'awarenesses of awareness or mindfulness' sati-upatthāna are: contemplation of body, feeling, mind and mental-objects.
...
http://what-buddha-said.net/library/Bud ... s.htm#sati


:anjali:
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Re: Anapana versus Vipassana Meditation in Goenka style

Postby Auguste » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:16 pm

I wonder why some great monks like Ajahn Brahm or Ven Webu Sayadaw (who was friend with Saya Gyi U Ba Khin) instruct Anapana only and Goenka think the body scan is the primordial way to reach nibanna.. what are your thoughts about it ?

It confuses me sometimes, having done a Goenka retreat and reading Ajahn Brahm.. I don't know if I should do body scan or focus on the breath.
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Re: Anapana versus Vipassana Meditation in Goenka style

Postby culaavuso » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:31 pm

Auguste wrote:I wonder why some great monks like Ajahn Brahm or Ven Webu Sayadaw (who was friend with Saya Gyi U Ba Khin) instruct Anapana only and Goenka think the body scan is the primordial way to reach nibanna.. what are your thoughts about it ?

It confuses me sometimes, having done a Goenka retreat and reading Ajahn Brahm.. I don't know if I should do body scan or focus on the breath.


If you have the opportunity to take instruction from a skilled teacher, following their instruction is probably a good idea. However, these two ideas are not contradictory. They both can lead to the development of both calm and insight.

Thanissaro Bhikkhu's A Guided Meditation suggests scanning the body to see how the breath sensations feel in various parts of the body, for example. This is both focusing on the breath and scanning the body simultaneously.
Thanissaro Bhikkhu wrote:Now move your awareness up to the solar plexus ... and then to the right, to the right flank ... to the left flank ... to the middle of the chest ... After a while move up to the base of the throat ... and then to the middle of the head. Be very careful with the breath energy in the head. Think of it very gently coming in, not only through the nose but also through the eyes, the ears, down from the top of the head, in from the back of the neck, very gently working through and loosening up any tension you may feel, say, around your jaws, the back of your neck, around your eyes, or around your face ...


Body scan oriented instructions are sometimes derived from the Satipatthana Sutta, while breath oriented instructions may be derived from the Anapanasati Sutta. However, it's worth noting that the four tetrads of the Anapanasati Sutta correspond to the four foundations of mindfulness from the Satipatthana Sutta. Both of these techniques were taught by the Buddha, and the quotes to "Go, do jhana" do not tend to specify one versus the other. It's also worth noting that body scanning is a way to develop sensitivity to the entire body, which is specifically mentioned in the first component of both suttas.

MN 10
MN 10: Satipatthana Sutta wrote:"There is the case where a monk — having gone to the wilderness, to the shade of a tree, or to an empty building — sits down folding his legs crosswise, holding his body erect and setting mindfulness to the fore [lit: the front of the chest]. Always mindful, he breathes in; mindful he breathes out.

"Breathing in long, he discerns, 'I am breathing in long'; or breathing out long, he discerns, 'I am breathing out long.' Or breathing in short, he discerns, 'I am breathing in short'; or breathing out short, he discerns, 'I am breathing out short.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to the entire body.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to the entire body.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe in calming bodily fabrication.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out calming bodily fabrication.'
...
"And how does a monk remain focused on feelings in & of themselves?
...
"And how does a monk remain focused on the mind in & of itself?
...
And how does a monk remain focused on mental qualities in & of themselves with reference to the five hindrances?


MN 118
MN 118: Anapanasati Sutta wrote:"[1] Breathing in long, he discerns, 'I am breathing in long'; or breathing out long, he discerns, 'I am breathing out long.' [2] Or breathing in short, he discerns, 'I am breathing in short'; or breathing out short, he discerns, 'I am breathing out short.' [3] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to the entire body.'[2] He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to the entire body.' [4] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in calming bodily fabrication.'[3] He trains himself, 'I will breathe out calming bodily fabrication.'

"[5] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to rapture.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to rapture.' [6] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to pleasure.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to pleasure.' [7] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to mental fabrication.'[4] He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to mental fabrication.' [8] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in calming mental fabrication.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out calming mental fabrication.'

"[9] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to the mind.' [10] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in satisfying the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out satisfying the mind.' [11] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in steadying the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out steadying the mind.' [12] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in releasing the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out releasing the mind.'[5]

"[13] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on inconstancy.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on inconstancy.' [14] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on dispassion [literally, fading].' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on dispassion.' [15] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on cessation.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on cessation.' [16] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on relinquishment.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on relinquishment.'
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Re: Anapana versus Vipassana Meditation in Goenka style

Postby Auguste » Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:04 pm

Thank you. :)
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