Vipassana vs. Jhanas

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andyebarnes67
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Vipassana vs. Jhanas

Postby andyebarnes67 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:30 pm

I am currently studying the Visuddhimagga which is really my first foray into some more serious work with the Abhidamma so there is a good chance my question might be answered later in my reading, however, in the hope of expanding my grasp of the material, I wonder if any have thoughts on something I am a little confused with.
My regular practice is samatha-vipassana but I have been feeling that perhaps I might be missing something more, shall we say, 'under the surface' by not looking at other techniques.
It was this really that led me to the Visuddhimagga in the first place but I am now wondering if perhaps I might be in danger of getting off the more direct route to go the 'long way round'. (I apologise if my choice of expressions are lacking somewhat, but hopefully I'm getting my meaning across).
I am now on Chapter IV, dealing with working with the Earth Kasina and specifically, v.153-182 where the third Jhana is described. In particular, the explanation of the factors of equanimity.
I can't help thinking the descriptions are much like that applied to the equanimity sought through vipassana.
Am I not understanding the material properly or are the different approaches in fact aiming at the same state/s? If so, is there any benefit in working through the Jhanas if one is already, at least, making some slow progress with vipassana.
Also, if I were to begin following the guidance in the Visuddhimagga, if I later felt that I wanted to return to vipassana, would I have made a rod for my back?
Grateful for any guidance offered.
:namaste:
Metta
:meditate:
Andy Barnes
My comments are by nature, subjective interpretations from my mind. As such, they are never wrong, They are as they are. They are never right, They are as they are.

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Re: Vipassana vs. Jhanas

Postby culaavuso » Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:39 pm

Last edited by culaavuso on Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Vipassana vs. Jhanas

Postby andyebarnes67 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:50 pm

Metta
:meditate:
Andy Barnes
My comments are by nature, subjective interpretations from my mind. As such, they are never wrong, They are as they are. They are never right, They are as they are.

culaavuso
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Re: Vipassana vs. Jhanas

Postby culaavuso » Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:54 pm



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Mkoll
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Re: Vipassana vs. Jhanas

Postby Mkoll » Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:19 pm

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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Re: Vipassana vs. Jhanas

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:54 pm


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waterchan
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Re: Vipassana vs. Jhanas

Postby waterchan » Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:31 pm

quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur
(Anything in Latin sounds profound.)

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Re: Vipassana vs. Jhanas

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:52 pm


suwapan
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Re: Vipassana vs. Jhanas

Postby suwapan » Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:42 pm

The understanding of Insight Meditation for student of Abhidhamma is not quite the same. Here is a summary from a Vipasana Bhavana Study Manual from Boonkanjanaram Meditation Center at a temple near Pattaya, Thailand.

Quote:

Samattha Bhavana
is Kusala and it's in Vatta-Dukkha (Samsara). It existed before the Lord Buddha.

The feeling when Jhana is reached is one of being happy paermanently, and with self, atta (Moha still exists).

1) The true nature is Samadhi to create peaceful mind.

2) The object of meditation is Pannatti (conventional reality), such as kasina (meditation disc).

3) The characteristic of Samattha is no restlessness.

4) The duty of Samattha is to suppress the 5 hindrances (Nivarana): sensuality, ill-will, restlessness, sloth and doubt.

5) The result of Samattha is one-pointedness (ekaggata).

6) The effect of Samattha is a mind that desires no kammaguna (sensuous pleasures), and is content and happy in Samadhi.

7) The benefit of Samattha is that in this life, Samapatti (the eight stages of Jhana) can be entered. The mind is without Abhijjha and Domanassa and is very peaceful. In the next life, the Brahma world (Brahmaloka) can be attained.

8) In Samattha, only one object and two senses are used at any one time, such as the eye and the mind (in this case of a kasina or visual object) or touch and the mind, in the case of Anapanasati (breath).

9) According to the Scriptures, a yogi who decides to practice Samattha, should determine which of these Carita (characteristics) is predominant in him:

1) Raga Carita (lustful nature)
2) Dohsa Carita (hating nature)
3) Moha Carita (deluded nature)
4) Satta Carita (faithful nature)
5) Buddhi Carita (intelligent nature)
6) Vitakka Carita (speculative nature)

Then the Visudhimagga should be consulted for the type of Samattha meditation for the Yogi's particular Carita. For example, for a lustful nature, Asubha or meditation on corpses is recommended.


Vipassana Bhavana
is Kusala but it is out of Samsara, and was discovered by the Lord Buddha.

The feeling when Vipassana yana is realized is that of impermanence, suffering and no-self (Annatta).

1) The true nature is Panna (wisdom).

2) The object of meditation is Paramatta (ultimate reality or rupa and nama) in the 4 foundations of Satipatthana, which leads to Vipassana wisdom.

3) The characteristic of Vipassana is wisdom, which reveals the true state of nature.

4) The duty of Vipassana is to destroy ignorance (avijja = ignorance of the 4 Noble Truths).

5) The result of Vipassana is to have the right view, (or the true state of the natures of nama and rupa).

6) The effect of Vipassana is Samadhi that has Satipatthana as an object (kanika samadhi) so Vipassana wisdom can occur.

7) The benefit of Vipassana is cessation of one's accumulations of defilements (asavakkhayanana).
With no defilements, no rebirth will occur (vivatta), which is Nibbana. Because of Nibbana, there is no rebirth and this is real happiness.

8) In Vipassana, 6 senses are used, and no special objects are needed. Simply observe rupa and nama, which are anicca, dukkha, annatta (True State of Nature). Even the hindrances (Nivarana) can be used as in Dhammanupassana (contemplation of mind objects).

9) The Lord Buddha said that one who would practice Vipassana should determine which of these Caritas resemble him. A station of Satipatthana is recommended for each of these 4 types (e.g. 1a, 1b). (For example, if the Carita is Tanha with strong wisdom (1a), the recommended station is Vedana.
1) Tanha Carita (craving nature)
a) strong wisdom
b) weak wisdom
2) Ditthi Carita (opinionated)
a) strong wisdom
b) weak wisdom

In these times, however, it has been determined that everyone has Tanha with weak wisdom, and so in this practice, Kaya meditation (major and minor positions) is used to with. According to the Lord Buddha, the Arahatta path in these time will only be attained through Kaya meditation ((major and minor positions).

Unquote: :anjali:

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Weakfocus
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Re: Vipassana vs. Jhanas

Postby Weakfocus » Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:42 am


suwapan
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Re: Vipassana vs. Jhanas

Postby suwapan » Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:02 pm

Thank you Weakfocus. It's my utmost pleasure. :D

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Re: Vipassana vs. Jhanas

Postby Pondera » Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:36 am



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