bhavanga

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jajas
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bhavanga

Postby jajas » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:17 am

Dear people.

Can anyone tell me about bavangha? a freind of mine has experianced it during vipasana meditation. But has not got a clou what to think of it. (8.09 amsterdam, holland)
She exprienced nothing for a while. As if a piece of time just had not existed. (12.02 amsterdam, holland)
Does anyone know how to treat it during vipasanameditation. She experiences it reguraly in periodes from short moments to 15 minutes and sometimes even longer. (Thursday, 6.38, amsterdam, holland)


Thanks

Marc
Last edited by jajas on Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:38 am, edited 4 times in total.

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robertk
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Re: bavangha

Postby robertk » Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:36 am

do you mean bhanga?
if your friend experrinced this she has gained a very high level of vipassana and has dispelled wrong view to a major extent.

Unfortunately there are thousands of people who are self deluded about attaining such stages.

which category she is in is anyones guess.

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purple planet
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Re: bavangha

Postby purple planet » Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:29 am

I heared about this but not as a stage but as a feeling in meditation not as an attainment ( i know there is an insight stage that has this name) where you sit and the time passes by and you thought you were sleeping when you sat - but its very similar to sleeping during the sitting meditation so its very easy to confuse the two - i am not sure at all but it might happen when theres no defilements at a certain moment or something like that




( if i understand correct! which i probably and usually dont ! )
Please send merit to my dog named Mika who has passed away - thanks in advance

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jajas
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Re: bavangha

Postby jajas » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:01 am

No It is not bangha. She exprienced nothing for a while. As if a piece of time just had not existed.

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James the Giant
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Re: bavangha

Postby James the Giant » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:30 am

jajas wrote:No It is not bangha. She exprienced nothing for a while. As if a piece of time just had not existed.

Interesting, I had that too, and the teacher said something like "bhavanga", which meant nothing to me.
I sat down to meditate, focussed on the breath and then immediately I heard the bell for the end of the hour.
I was not asleep, as I slump or fall off my stool when I sleep... I was just there one minute, and the next instant it was an hour later. No resulting grogginess or confusion. If anything, I felt sharper and clearer.
Useful if there's a boring lecture I want to miss or something, but apart from that it seems like a bit of a dead end. What can you do with the ability to skip time, apart from waste your life?
Still, I'd be interested in knowing more about this bhavanga or bavanga thing.
The wiki on it is less than helpful from a practical, practise perspective.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11

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Sokehi
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Re: bavangha

Postby Sokehi » Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:15 pm

Interesting. Is this something beneficial? It sounds like "killing time" with a blank state where their is no wisdom developed or paramitas strengthened. Just asking, never heard about this "stage" ever before.
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purple planet
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Re: bavangha

Postby purple planet » Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:21 pm

i read about this a long time ago - but where i saw it - it said its legit meditation time - even if you were not "active"

edit : guess i was wrong by reading other comments that were posted after
Last edited by purple planet on Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Please send merit to my dog named Mika who has passed away - thanks in advance

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robertk
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Re: bavangha

Postby robertk » Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:25 pm

Oh Bhavanga.
It occurs repeatedly during deep sleep for long periods.

During the daytime it is much more intermittent.

Anyway nothing to be alarmed about.

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Re: bavangha

Postby SarathW » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:45 pm

27. Thought-Process—
The subject, the consciousness, receives objects from
within and without. When a person is in a state of profound
sleep his mind is said to be vacant, or, in other
words, in a state of Bhavaïga. We always experience such
a passive state when our minds do not respond to external
objects. This flow of Bhavaïga is interrupted when objects
enter the mind. Then the Bhavaïga consciousness
vibrates for one thought-moment and passes away.

Page 49
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/abhidhamma.pdf

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jajas
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Re: bhavanga

Postby jajas » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:26 am

Does anyone know how to treat it during vipasanameditation?
She experiences it reguraly in periodes from short moments to 15 minutes and sometimes even longer.

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Re: bavangha

Postby culaavuso » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:49 am

James the Giant wrote:I sat down to meditate, focussed on the breath and then immediately I heard the bell for the end of the hour.
I was not asleep, as I slump or fall off my stool when I sleep... I was just there one minute, and the next instant it was an hour later. No resulting grogginess or confusion. If anything, I felt sharper and clearer.


This sounds like an experience described in Jhana Not by the Numbers which is described as a form of Wrong Concentration. It is described as a result of concentration of limited range resulting from blocking out areas of awareness, rather than developing all-around awareness. If this describes the experience in question, then perhaps maintaining all-around awareness rather than completely focusing in on a single point would remove the necessary conditions.

Thanissaro Bhikkhu wrote:The second state was one I happened to hit one night when my concentration was extremely one-pointed, and so refined that it refused settle on or label even the most fleeting mental objects. I dropped into a state in which I lost all sense of the body, of any internal/external sounds, or of any thoughts or perceptions at all — although there was just enough tiny awareness to let me know, when I emerged, that I hadn't been asleep. I found that I could stay there for many hours, and yet time would pass very quickly. Two hours would seem like two minutes. I could also "program" myself to come out at a particular time.

After hitting this state several nights in a row, I told Ajaan Fuang about it, and his first question was, "Do you like it?" My answer was "No," because I felt a little groggy the first time I came out. "Good," he said. "As long as you don't like it, you're safe. Some people really like it and think it's nibbana or cessation. Actually, it's the state of non-perception (asaññi-bhava). It's not even right concentration, because there's no way you can investigate anything in there to gain any sort of discernment. But it does have other uses." He then told me of the time he had undergone kidney surgery and, not trusting the anesthesiologist, had put himself in that state for the duration of the operation.

In both these states of wrong concentration, the limited range of awareness was what made them wrong. If whole areas of your awareness are blocked off, how can you gain all-around insight? And as I've noticed in years since, people adept at blotting out large areas of awareness through powerful one-pointedness also tend to be psychologically adept at dissociation and denial. This is why Ajaan Fuang, following Ajaan Lee, taught a form of breath meditation that aimed at an all-around awareness of the breath energy throughout the body, playing with it to gain a sense of ease, and then calming it so that it wouldn't interfere with a clear vision of the subtle movements of the mind. This all-around awareness helped to eliminate the blind spots where ignorance likes to lurk.

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purple planet
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Re: bhavanga

Postby purple planet » Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:25 am

so how to avoid entering that state when doing mahsi style meditation ?
Please send merit to my dog named Mika who has passed away - thanks in advance

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Re: bhavanga

Postby pabhaata » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:09 pm

if you are hitting this kind of 'non-perception' state often - then try opening your eyes and meditating.
with your eyes open - pay attention to your palms and finger tips continuously and at the same time be aware of your breath also (you can try to do the same with the toes and soles also). this prevents you from getting into the 'non-perception' state and also improves your meditation.


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