I'm training my dog to not pull on the leash. She has an obsession with sniffing every smell she finds, apparently scavenging for food (even though we feed her enough). Well, when she pulls, sometimes I just pull her back, tell her to sit, and not move. I hold the leash tight, so that she really can't do anything other than just sit there. When I do this, she quivers and has a look of anxiety and craving on her face, like she desperately just wants to obsessively and neurotically chase after the smells on the ground she follows... Sometimes, though, she seems to actually be putting forth effort to calm down, relax, and let go.
Also, she comes to me when she wants to go out. But I often make her wait. When she has to wait, she just lays down nearby and sits there, staring blankly or sleeping. I have a poster of a woman on my own wall... The other day, I saw her looking at it, and I looked over at her, thinking, "What the heck is she looking at that for?"
The traditional idea that animals are reborn as humans just by waiting for their karma to be exhausted just doesn't sit right with me. I mean, why should it apply to the woeful realms, but not the human realms also? I can't just sit in these human realms and "wait for my karma to be exhausted." I am reborn in higher realms through mindfulness and right action, and can actually fall into lower realms through a lack of mindfulness. Could this not hold true for beings in other realms? Don't animals put forth effort and concentration, in their own limited way?
An animal that is well-trained benefits psychologically. And I think that, for instance, a dog that is well-disciplined and well-loved will likely have a different rebirth than a wild dog. Am I wrong?
Do animals meditate?
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Re: Do animals meditate?
I dont think that animals could meditate as it does need a certain level of self-awareness, something which animals do lack in a full sense as they are driven by instincts alone.
“The teacher willed that this world appear to me
as impermanent, unstable, insubstantial.
Mind, let me leap into the victor’s teaching,
carry me over the great flood, so hard to pass.”
as impermanent, unstable, insubstantial.
Mind, let me leap into the victor’s teaching,
carry me over the great flood, so hard to pass.”
- Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: Do animals meditate?
I've actually never run across this specific teaching before. It sounds like you're saying that beings in the lower realms are serving time in a sense, until their karma is exhausted?The traditional idea that animals are reborn as humans just by waiting for their karma to be exhausted just doesn't sit right with me. I mean, why should it apply to the woeful realms, but not the human realms also? I can't just sit in these human realms and "wait for my karma to be exhausted."
I think this requires further investigation Hope to hear more.
Kindly,
Drolma
Re: Do animals meditate?
I believe it does apply to the human realms. Once someone has exhausted their karma (or merit) to be human they die. In most cases humans fall into the lower realms upon death. Where we will stay until our karma is exhausted. It's the same for all realms. The god realm may last for aeons but eventually the gods lose their merit to the point they have none, which sends them to the hell realm when they die. Animals don't have the wisdom to meditate. But I did read one story of a boar that was being hunted. As it tried to escape the hunters it came upon a stupa. It "remembered" taking refuge in the stupa in a former life. As it died from exhaustion in front of the stupa it's actions where so pure, it took rebirth in a pureland. Perhaps from this story animals can meditate, but if so it has to be rare. It's difficult for a human to take rebirth in a pureland, much less an animal.Individual wrote:
The traditional idea that animals are reborn as humans just by waiting for their karma to be exhausted just doesn't sit right with me. I mean, why should it apply to the woeful realms, but not the human realms also? I can't just sit in these human realms and "wait for my karma to be exhausted." I am reborn in higher realms through mindfulness and right action, and can actually fall into lower realms through a lack of mindfulness. Could this not hold true for beings in other realms? Don't animals put forth effort and concentration, in their own limited way?
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Re: Do animals meditate?
A favorite method of communicating is the cat's purr, which is unique to the feline species. You may already know that a cat purrs when he's content. Animal behaviorists now believe that they also purr when they are in the mood to be sociable.
However, if you pay close attention to your cat, you'll notice that he also purrs when he's nervous, feeling a little uneasy or even if he's in great pain. Some experts think it's a feline form of "meditation" and that this action comforts them. If this theory is at all correct, the "purring" sound of the feline is the equivalent of our "Ohm" when we meditate.
http://www.articlesbase.com/pets-articl ... 57327.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
However, if you pay close attention to your cat, you'll notice that he also purrs when he's nervous, feeling a little uneasy or even if he's in great pain. Some experts think it's a feline form of "meditation" and that this action comforts them. If this theory is at all correct, the "purring" sound of the feline is the equivalent of our "Ohm" when we meditate.
http://www.articlesbase.com/pets-articl ... 57327.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.
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Re: Do animals meditate?
This is an interesting discussion. thank you for sharing
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Re: Do animals meditate?
I don't know if animals can meditate, but I do firmly believe that the capacities of animals to act purposefully (instead of being purely instinct-driven) are wildly underestimated.
I don't know about dogs but I am sharing my household with a few cats - and their actions and characters are very different; some of them are real sunshine kitties who are always happy, positive and friendly; others are anxious, nervous and neurotic. Their frame of reference will certainly differ from our human perspective, but they have their own rules, preferences and developments to go by. And there are some that are real little "angels" and I find it hard to imagine that they might not have a chance to gain merit/positive rebirth.
I am trying to expose them to my Buddhst practise, playing chants etc. for them just in case they might benefit. And funny, when I am going into a guided meditation session and a cat is lying on my legs etc. they seem to relax as well
Anyway, I think that - culturally speaking - animals are really underestimated in their (self-)consciousness, so I hope they will be able to move towards enlightenment one way or the other
I don't know about dogs but I am sharing my household with a few cats - and their actions and characters are very different; some of them are real sunshine kitties who are always happy, positive and friendly; others are anxious, nervous and neurotic. Their frame of reference will certainly differ from our human perspective, but they have their own rules, preferences and developments to go by. And there are some that are real little "angels" and I find it hard to imagine that they might not have a chance to gain merit/positive rebirth.
I am trying to expose them to my Buddhst practise, playing chants etc. for them just in case they might benefit. And funny, when I am going into a guided meditation session and a cat is lying on my legs etc. they seem to relax as well
Anyway, I think that - culturally speaking - animals are really underestimated in their (self-)consciousness, so I hope they will be able to move towards enlightenment one way or the other
Re: Do animals meditate?
When cats give birth, or are injured,they purr in a special deep and loud frequency, which seems to reduce pain and speed up healing, a study showed.bodom_bad_boy wrote:A favorite method of communicating is the cat's purr, which is unique to the feline species. You may already know that a cat purrs when he's content. Animal behaviorists now believe that they also purr when they are in the mood to be sociable.
However, if you pay close attention to your cat, you'll notice that he also purrs when he's nervous, feeling a little uneasy or even if he's in great pain. Some experts think it's a feline form of "meditation" and that this action comforts them. If this theory is at all correct, the "purring" sound of the feline is the equivalent of our "Ohm" when we meditate.
http://www.articlesbase.com/pets-articl ... 57327.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bone fractures of people who often held purring cats healed significantly quicker, also less pain was reported.
Frequencies have distinct effects on the cells of beings.
My cat Julie once jumped onto my chest when I was in bed and caughing for hours, and purred in an unfamiliar frequency, that I had only heard before when she had her paw hurt,and I had to wash it everyday and treat it. She was in great pain, and in between meooooows, purred like this.
My caugh, which had been bothering me for weeks, completely disappeared that night.
I still can't believe that it happened, and don't know how, but as soon as she was on my chest and purred in that loud deep way, I felt relief, and I could breathe again...
I like the notion that they say "Om" when purring....
Re: Do animals meditate?
Vardali wrote:I don't know if animals can meditate, but I do firmly believe that the capacities of animals to act purposefully (instead of being purely instinct-driven) are wildly underestimated.
I don't know about dogs but I am sharing my household with a few cats - and their actions and characters are very different; some of them are real sunshine kitties who are always happy, positive and friendly; others are anxious, nervous and neurotic. Their frame of reference will certainly differ from our human perspective, but they have their own rules, preferences and developments to go by. And there are some that are real little "angels" and I find it hard to imagine that they might not have a chance to gain merit/positive rebirth.
I am trying to expose them to my Buddhst practise, playing chants etc. for them just in case they might benefit. And funny, when I am going into a guided meditation session and a cat is lying on my legs etc. they seem to relax as well
Anyway, I think that - culturally speaking - animals are really underestimated in their (self-)consciousness, so I hope they will be able to move towards enlightenment one way or the other
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Re: Do animals meditate?
There was a similar discussion to this over at e-sangha a few years back and Bhante Dhammanando was not on vassa at the time, so there were some great quotes and information from him.
He mentioned some quotes where the Buddha had some communication with some animals (elephants and others) in an apparent mind-to-mind communication where clearly the animals were obtaining some wholesome, good kamma.
I think there are plenty of other cases where animals can generate negative kamma. For example, male lions killing the cubs of a female so that she will mate with him to reproduce more or female lionesses killing cheetah cubs so that they don't grow big and become competition for game meat later in life.
In general, using common sense, most animals will exhaust kamma after so many lifetimes, but there are some at least subtle opportunities to generate good or bad kamma.
Over my lifetime so far, I have been owned by 8 different cats (not all at the same time) and currently have three cats that own me and order me around. And there is not any two who are alike in any way. Each has had their own personalities, good traits and bad traits. Some were friendlier than others, some nicer, etc. Two of the cats I have had were from the same litter and had the same "upbringing" yet they were completely different in every way.
He mentioned some quotes where the Buddha had some communication with some animals (elephants and others) in an apparent mind-to-mind communication where clearly the animals were obtaining some wholesome, good kamma.
I think there are plenty of other cases where animals can generate negative kamma. For example, male lions killing the cubs of a female so that she will mate with him to reproduce more or female lionesses killing cheetah cubs so that they don't grow big and become competition for game meat later in life.
In general, using common sense, most animals will exhaust kamma after so many lifetimes, but there are some at least subtle opportunities to generate good or bad kamma.
Over my lifetime so far, I have been owned by 8 different cats (not all at the same time) and currently have three cats that own me and order me around. And there is not any two who are alike in any way. Each has had their own personalities, good traits and bad traits. Some were friendlier than others, some nicer, etc. Two of the cats I have had were from the same litter and had the same "upbringing" yet they were completely different in every way.
Re: Do animals meditate?
Animals do not have the capacity to understand the Dhamma. It would naturally follow that they are incapable of meditation.
However I do think animals can act with purpose, let me relate a story.
We used to have 2 cats, Bobby was the Alpha male around the neighbourhood and we loved him dearly. When I was younger I would sit on the porch after school for a good 20 minutes, and wait for a taxi to pick me up and take me to my Mum's work. Bobby would come every day without fail, and sit with me. He didn't expect anything of me, and I didn't expect anything of him. Just two sentient beings enjoying each other's company. Never underestimate the power of animals to make humans happy and teach them compassion.
Bobby used to rush home from prowling his teritory to greet us because he knew the sound of our car. When I was coming home one night he was obviously rushing home to greet me and got hit by a car on the road adjacent to us.
We didn't know this had happened, but our other cat Paru, a quiet shy wee moggy who largely kept to herself - Was in a strange mood that night. For the first time in years she actually came up to my Mum and started meowing at her, and came and sat on her knee. She was meowing quite a lot that night, for a cat who never meowed before. So when we found Bobby dead on the road side it all seemed to add up. My Mum was grieving pretty hard, and I was no different. But this wee cat Paru, stuck by us, and kept us company. Rubbing up between our legs and looking at us with big comforting eyes... If ever you could see compassion in a cat's eyes, this was it.
It was a beautiful moment, and one that served the shy wee cat a lot of merit - I believe, or well I hope it did anyway. She had a good heart.
Some animals have a lot of good merit stored up in there, a lot of good traits which are still easy to see if one pays attention.
However I do think animals can act with purpose, let me relate a story.
We used to have 2 cats, Bobby was the Alpha male around the neighbourhood and we loved him dearly. When I was younger I would sit on the porch after school for a good 20 minutes, and wait for a taxi to pick me up and take me to my Mum's work. Bobby would come every day without fail, and sit with me. He didn't expect anything of me, and I didn't expect anything of him. Just two sentient beings enjoying each other's company. Never underestimate the power of animals to make humans happy and teach them compassion.
Bobby used to rush home from prowling his teritory to greet us because he knew the sound of our car. When I was coming home one night he was obviously rushing home to greet me and got hit by a car on the road adjacent to us.
We didn't know this had happened, but our other cat Paru, a quiet shy wee moggy who largely kept to herself - Was in a strange mood that night. For the first time in years she actually came up to my Mum and started meowing at her, and came and sat on her knee. She was meowing quite a lot that night, for a cat who never meowed before. So when we found Bobby dead on the road side it all seemed to add up. My Mum was grieving pretty hard, and I was no different. But this wee cat Paru, stuck by us, and kept us company. Rubbing up between our legs and looking at us with big comforting eyes... If ever you could see compassion in a cat's eyes, this was it.
It was a beautiful moment, and one that served the shy wee cat a lot of merit - I believe, or well I hope it did anyway. She had a good heart.
Some animals have a lot of good merit stored up in there, a lot of good traits which are still easy to see if one pays attention.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta
Path Press - Ñāṇavīra Thera Dhamma Page - Ajahn Nyanamoli's Dhamma talks
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta
Path Press - Ñāṇavīra Thera Dhamma Page - Ajahn Nyanamoli's Dhamma talks
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Re: Do animals meditate?
Greetings kannada,
Metta,
Retro.
On the other hand, if my stupid dog Penny had a better understanding of cause-and-effect, she might be a bit less stupid.kannada wrote:Animals don't need to meditate - We do...
Metta,
Retro.
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"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Do animals meditate?
Hi Retro,
Thanks for the photo. If Penny were living among her own kind, in her own natural environment, and raised by her own species, she would have developed keen intelligence. The problem arises when one species attempts to raise another, the obvious shortcomings occur. In her own enviornment Penny would have to develop a keen understanding of cause and effect as one transgression may well mean death...
Regards
k
Thanks for the photo. If Penny were living among her own kind, in her own natural environment, and raised by her own species, she would have developed keen intelligence. The problem arises when one species attempts to raise another, the obvious shortcomings occur. In her own enviornment Penny would have to develop a keen understanding of cause and effect as one transgression may well mean death...
Regards
k
Just a view - nothing more...