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Nibbana without Practice - possible in theravada? - Dhamma Wheel

Nibbana without Practice - possible in theravada?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Sokehi
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Nibbana without Practice - possible in theravada?

Postby Sokehi » Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:37 pm

So the title says it basically what I'm contemplating about. From my earlier days of zen practice I still recall some monks on retreat teaching that their could be Nirvana without even practicing. The classical "heard a sound, sudden enlightenment".

So canonically speaking: is this a possibility from a classical theravadan view? Is something like this somewhere to be found in the scriptures?
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko


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Re: Nibbana without Practice - possible in theravada?

Postby culaavuso » Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:39 pm



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Re: Nibbana without Practice - possible in theravada?

Postby Sokehi » Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:41 pm

Ah! I've read this some time ago but couldn't recall it. Thank you very much! :anjali:
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko


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Re: Nibbana without Practice - possible in theravada?

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:12 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

culaavuso
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Re: Nibbana without Practice - possible in theravada?

Postby culaavuso » Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:47 am



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Re: Nibbana without Practice - possible in theravada?

Postby chownah » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:11 am

I think it depends on perspective. If you view a persons entire life up to the time of enlightenment the it will seem that enlightenment was attained gradually but if you focus in on the moment that enlightenment occurs it will seem that it was attained suddenly........is this too obvious to even be mentioned?
chownah

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Re: Nibbana without Practice - possible in theravada?

Postby lyndon taylor » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:19 am

I think in most cases today, instant enlightenment is about as likely as an instant PhD in philosophy from Harvard. Of course occasionally they give out honourary PhDs from Harvard to people hardly qualified. Buddhism is a path that begins right where you started and progresses as you come to a better and better understanding of many different things, I couldn't begin to tell you how many, cause I'm not there yet.

There is a new agey thing floating around we are already all Buddhas, we are all already enlightened, leave your donation at the door.... But I'm not buying into that stuff!!
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Re: Nibbana without Practice - possible in theravada?

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:54 am

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Re: Nibbana without Practice - possible in theravada?

Postby Kare » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:31 am

Mettāya,
Kåre

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Re: Nibbana without Practice - possible in theravada?

Postby boris » Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:04 am

The man who wants to avoid grotesque collapses should not look for anything to fulfill him in space and time.

Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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Re: Nibbana without Practice - possible in theravada?

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:30 pm

Thanks Culavlavuso


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: Nibbana without Practice - possible in theravada?

Postby Sokehi » Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:03 pm

Very well, many helpful postings plus some with regards to the Canon, wonderful! :anjali:

Out of purpose I just said "without practice". From what I know of living 39 years this Life and Practicing in Therms of Dhamma for 16 years now I'd say it's or it must be impossible to be suddenly enlightened without any preceding efforts towards it, or at least a wholesome conduct and investigation into how things are with regards to their true nature. I don't believe in any shortcuts, reflecting my own conduct over those years, failures and by wrong view supported Thinkings and Doings I am sure, very very sure, that the eightfold path is the way. But I was curious if there is anything to be found within the canon that gives an example of sudden, unexpected, untrained etc. breakthrough towards Enlightenment.

Thanks to all of you for clearing this up :anjali:
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko


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lyndon taylor
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Re: Nibbana without Practice - possible in theravada?

Postby lyndon taylor » Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:37 pm

Since we don't have the Buddha in person as our teacher, I can't think it realistic to have the same relatively quick awakenings recorded in the scripture, though I guess anythings possible sometime, but perhaps on a much smaller scale.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/


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