Logical Thought and Anatta/Voidness

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clw_uk
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Logical Thought and Anatta/Voidness

Postby clw_uk » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:27 am

Greetings


In relation to my on going debate again, how does logical thought get explained in Buddhism in relation to Anatta/Voidness


Its not something ive really thought about before


My view at the moment is that since its anicca its still dukkha and anatta but how does it get explained without appeal to a self in Buddhism? (since logical thought naturally makes us feel there is a doer"

metta
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

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Ben
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Re: Logical Thought and Anatta/Voidness

Postby Ben » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:59 am

sabbe dhamma anatta
S iii.133
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Re: Logical Thought and Anatta/Voidness

Postby Individual » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:12 am

The best things in life aren't things.


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mikenz66
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Re: Logical Thought and Anatta/Voidness

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:13 am


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Ben
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Re: Logical Thought and Anatta/Voidness

Postby Ben » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:20 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

Individual
Posts: 1970
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:19 am

Re: Logical Thought and Anatta/Voidness

Postby Individual » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:21 pm

The best things in life aren't things.


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acinteyyo
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Re: Logical Thought and Anatta/Voidness

Postby acinteyyo » Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:15 pm

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Logical Thought and Anatta/Voidness

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:43 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

kannada
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Re: Logical Thought and Anatta/Voidness

Postby kannada » Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:11 am

Just a view - nothing more...

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Re: Logical Thought and Anatta/Voidness

Postby Sanghamitta » Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:14 am

Can you give a canonical reference for your view Kannada ?
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

kannada
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Re: Logical Thought and Anatta/Voidness

Postby kannada » Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:30 am

For what? Anatta or Shunyatta.

The view af anatta is based on the laws of logic.

The translation of Shunyata is based on Sanskrit translation. Shunya = 'zero' atta = 'self'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_numerals
Last edited by kannada on Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Just a view - nothing more...

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Re: Logical Thought and Anatta/Voidness

Postby Sanghamitta » Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:34 am

Can you give a Buddhist canonical reference to support your view of Anatta or Shunyata, specifically their not being subjecct to logic, I dont mean a restatement of your view or a definition of the words, i know their meaning.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

kannada
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Re: Logical Thought and Anatta/Voidness

Postby kannada » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:02 am

Just a view - nothing more...

Sanghamitta
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Re: Logical Thought and Anatta/Voidness

Postby Sanghamitta » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:30 am

The relevance is surely that this being a Theravada Forum it is not unreasonable to ask that views expressed should be demonstrably in line with the teachings of the Buddha, and that the definitive way to demonstrate that that are in line with the Buddha's teaching is to point to the canonical reference that supports that view. That seems extremely reasonable to me.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

kannada
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Re: Logical Thought and Anatta/Voidness

Postby kannada » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:40 am

Just a view - nothing more...

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Ben
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Re: Logical Thought and Anatta/Voidness

Postby Ben » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:45 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

kannada
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Re: Logical Thought and Anatta/Voidness

Postby kannada » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:59 am

Thank you Ben,

Your kindness is admirable...

Best wishes

k
Just a view - nothing more...

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Macavity
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Re: Logical Thought and Anatta/Voidness

Postby Macavity » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:59 pm


kannada
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Re: Logical Thought and Anatta/Voidness

Postby kannada » Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:03 am

Just a view - nothing more...

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Dan74
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Re: Logical Thought and Anatta/Voidness

Postby Dan74 » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:25 am

The problem comes from conflating the categories.

In the conventional sense there are dharmas, in the ultimate sense there aren't.

The language of prajnaparamita (insight into emptiness) is a tool for dislodging the notion of existing dharmas. Dharmas (things) are useful designations, in that sense they are real, it the ultimate sense they are all empty of any self-nature, interdependent, ever-changing and therefore don't exist (as separate entities).

So there is no logical contradiction nor any paradox, just wrongly entrenched notions of existence, separateness, permanence and self.

_/|\_
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