5th precept clarification

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Training of Sila, the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).

5th precept clarification

Postby Strive4Karuna » Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:51 pm

What is the 5th precept as stated by the Buddha word for word? I have seen it interpreted as

1) no intoxicating/alcoholic beverages
2) no intoxicating drinks & drugs
3) no intoxicants that cause heedlessness/carelessness.
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Re: 5th precept clarification

Postby lyndon taylor » Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:03 pm

Seems like you are looking for some loophole you can get high on, just stay sober!!!!
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community that has so generously given me so much, sincerely former monk John
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Re: 5th precept clarification

Postby waterchan » Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:18 pm

Strive4Karuna wrote:What is the 5th precept as stated by the Buddha word for word?


See this thread for an in-depth discussion.

lyndon taylor wrote:Seems like you are looking for some loophole you can get high on, just stay sober!!!!


Where in his question or post history does it indicate that he's looking for a loophole to get high?
Last edited by waterchan on Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 5th precept clarification

Postby lyndon taylor » Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:23 pm

Because he's started several threads with the same topic.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community that has so generously given me so much, sincerely former monk John
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Re: 5th precept clarification

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:05 pm

Hi Strive4Karuna
I do this for each of the precepts and some other ethical guidelines here
Surāmerayamajjapamādṭṭhānā
Surāmeraya – rum & spirits.
Surā - intoxicating liquor.
meraya - fermented liquor.
Majjapa - one drinks, strong drinks.
Majja - an intoxicant.
Pamāda - negligence; indolence; remissness; carelessness.
Māda - pride; intoxication; conceit; sexual excess.
ṭhānā - place; locality; condition; reason; office; cause;
Veramaṇī
Vera – hatred; enemy.
Viratta – dispassion; non-attached to.
Mana – pride; conceit.
Mānī – one who is proud.
Maṇi – a gem jewel.
Veramaṇī – abstinence.
Sikkhāpadaṃ
Sikkhā – discipline; training
Pada - a line of stanza.
Sikkhāpada - a precept; a religious rule.
Samādiyāmi
Samādiyāmi – Take upon oneself, 1st person.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: 5th precept clarification

Postby seeker242 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:46 pm

Cittasanto wrote:Hi Strive4Karuna
I do this for each of the precepts and some other ethical guidelines here
Surāmerayamajjapamādṭṭhānā
Surāmeraya – rum & spirits.
Surā - intoxicating liquor.
meraya - fermented liquor.
Majjapa - one drinks, strong drinks.
Majja - an intoxicant.
Pamāda - negligence; indolence; remissness; carelessness.
Māda - pride; intoxication; conceit; sexual excess.
ṭhānā - place; locality; condition; reason; office; cause;


Cittasanto. :anjali:

Curious! What do you think of the idea that this precept only applies to alcohol drinks? Some people insist that it only applies to alcoholic drink and not to other substances, like psychedelic drugs, because they claim the pali words technically only mentions liquors, drinks, etc.?
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Re: 5th precept clarification

Postby lyndon taylor » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:32 am

It would also include strong drinks made with hashish which are popular in India, so not only alcohol is covered, I would think.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community that has so generously given me so much, sincerely former monk John
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Re: 5th precept clarification

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:27 am

seeker242 wrote:Cittasanto. :anjali:

Curious! What do you think of the idea that this precept only applies to alcohol drinks? Some people insist that it only applies to alcoholic drink and not to other substances, like psychedelic drugs, because they claim the pali words technically only mentions liquors, drinks, etc.?

I think those who say this only applies to alcoholic drinks forget the great standard.
I do not know about what happened in india 2500 years ago, but magic mushrooms and other similar "products" are made into infusions; and some fermentations, I have been told, result in other heedlessness leading substances. I believe it safe to include any substance that leads to heedlessness within this rule with obvious exceptions as briefly talked about in another thread.
Last edited by Cittasanto on Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: 5th precept clarification

Postby cooran » Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:44 am

Hello Cittasanto,

Do you mean "heedlessness" not "heedfulness" ?

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: 5th precept clarification

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:11 am

Hi Chris,
Thanks for noticing the mistake, I meant heedlessness.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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