Do animals meditate?

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Annapurna
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Re: Do animals meditate?

Post by Annapurna »

BlackBird wrote:Animals do not have the capacity to understand the Dhamma. It would naturally follow that they are incapable of meditation.

However I do think animals can act with purpose, let me relate a story.

We used to have 2 cats, Bobby was the Alpha male around the neighbourhood and we loved him dearly. When I was younger I would sit on the porch after school for a good 20 minutes, and wait for a taxi to pick me up and take me to my Mum's work. Bobby would come every day without fail, and sit with me. He didn't expect anything of me, and I didn't expect anything of him. Just two sentient beings enjoying each other's company. Never underestimate the power of animals to make humans happy and teach them compassion.

Bobby used to rush home from prowling his teritory to greet us because he knew the sound of our car. When I was coming home one night he was obviously rushing home to greet me and got hit by a car on the road adjacent to us.

We didn't know this had happened, but our other cat Paru, a quiet shy wee moggy who largely kept to herself - Was in a strange mood that night. For the first time in years she actually came up to my Mum and started meowing at her, and came and sat on her knee. She was meowing quite a lot that night, for a cat who never meowed before. So when we found Bobby dead on the road side it all seemed to add up. My Mum was grieving pretty hard, and I was no different. But this wee cat Paru, stuck by us, and kept us company. Rubbing up between our legs and looking at us with big comforting eyes... If ever you could see compassion in a cat's eyes, this was it.

It was a beautiful moment, and one that served the shy wee cat a lot of merit - I believe, or well I hope it did anyway. She had a good heart.

Some animals have a lot of good merit stored up in there, a lot of good traits which are still easy to see if one pays attention.

Hi Blackbird, I'm pretty moved right now by your post.


It seems to mirror my experience with cats so well.

Both my cats got hit by cars too, the second, Jeannie, died in my arms. My heart was in pieces, I cried all day.

Cats were for us like family members, like children.

I like what you wrote about compassion.

It's true,they are wonderful teachers, also of compassion.

They also HAVE compassion, sure, lots of.

I know they love us. This love makes them care about our wellbeing.

I have several examples of my cats showing compassion in a very tender way to family members if they were sick or sad.

My cats would both roll up beside me, and put one paw on me, from time to time ever so gently grab me with the 'fingers', to reassure me of...yeah,- something like: "Hey.... I'm here, you're not alone".

Thatwas really comforting.

I recall one night were Juli's neck fur was wet from my tears, and she wouldn't move nor walk away.

When I shoved furniture around one day, and moaning, because a closet wouldn't move, Jeannie got up on her hind legs, put her tiny paws on the other corner of the closet and gave me a confident deep look into the eyes.


That made me laugh, and them "we" pushed together.

The closet moved!!!

I was so happy. Hugging that little thing that gave me more strenght, because I don't assume she had a lot to contribute. But I'll never ever forget, how she got up,had her paws on the closet and looked me straight into the eyes.

She wanted support me in her own way. She had good intentions, and compassion.
And so I think, that my cats gained lots of merit, for the happiness they gave us.

They were also very obedient, especially Jeannie.

So, when you say that cats can't understand the dhamma, I will say you're (probably) right, ;) but they can live a part of it. :anjali:
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Rhino
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Re: Do animals meditate?

Post by Rhino »

The Buddha said in M129 that the life of animals is full of suffering and that animals are not able for liberation
Bhikkhus, there are beings that go on their fours and grinding grass dry or wet with their teeth, eat it. Who are such beings? They are horses, cattle, donkeys, goats,deer or any other animals that go on their fours and eat grass. The fool greedy for tastes do evil things and after death are born in the company of the four footed and eat grass.

Bhikkhus, there are animals that eat excreta. They run sniffing the smell of excreta, thinking we will eat that and that, like the brahmin that runs for the smell of a sacrifice thinking we will eat here and here. In the same manner animals that eat excreta. run sniffing the smell of excreta, thinking we will eat that and that. Bhikkhus, what are the animals that eat excreta? They are cocks, pigs, dogs, foxes and any other animals that eat excreta. The fool greedy for tastes do evil things and after death are born in the company of the animals that eat excreta.

Bhikkhus, there are crawling things that are born, live and die in the dark.. Bhikkhus, what are the crawling things that are born, live and die in the dark? Beetles, worm maggots, earth worms and similar crawling things are born, live and die in the dark. Fools greedy for tastes do evil things and after death are born in the company of those born in the dark

Bhikkhus, there are things that are born, live and die in the water..Bhikkhus, what are the things that are born, live and die in water? Fish, turtles, crocodiles and similar beings are born, live and die in water. Fools greedy for tastes do evil things and after death are born in the company of those born in water.

Bhikkhus, there are things that are born, live and die in excreta..Bhikkhus, what are the things that are born, live and die in excreta? Things that are born live and die in rotten fish, in rotten flesh, in rotten bread, in a dirty village pool Fools greedy for tastes do evil things and after death are born in the company of those born, live and die in excreta.

I may explain the unpleasantness of the animal world in various ways, yet it is not easy to explain that unpleasantness completely.

Bhikkhus, a man would throw into the ocean a plough share with a single hole in it. Then with the eastern winds it would be carried west and with the western windscarried east. With the northern winds it would be carried south and with the southern winds carried north. Then there is a blind turtle in the depths of the ocean and it comes up to the surface after the lapse of a hundred years. Bhikkhus this turtle with one eye to see would he put his neck in the plough share and yoke it to the hole to see light?’

‘Venerable sir, it would happen after the lapse of a very long time.’

‘Bhikkhus, it is more likely that the blind turtle would put his neck in the plough share and yoke the eye to the hole to see light rather than the fool once fallen to hell would gain humanity. What is the reason? Here, there is no righteous living, good conduct, merit or a pleasant mind. Here they eat each other, the weaker one is eaten up.

Bhikkhus, even if the fool regains humanity after a very long time he is born in a low clan such as with the out castes, the hunters, with the bamboo weavers, chariot builders, rubbish collectors or in such other low family.Born into a poor family without eatables, drinks and clothing, gains them with difficulty. He too is not with pleasant appearance has a deformed body and is with many ailments, either blind, deformed, lame or paralysed, or does not gain eatables, drinks, clothes, conveyances, flowers, scents, ointments, beds, dwellings and illuminations. He misbehaves by body, speech and mind and after death goes to decrease and is born in hell

Bhikkhus, it is like the gambler, who at the first throw loses his sons, wife and all his wealth and is further pursued. That unlucky throw on account of which the gambler loses his sons, wife and all his wealth is much better than the fool misbehavingby body, speech and mindwould after death be born in hell.Bhikkhus, now the fools’ sphere is completely told
http://www.vipassana.info/129-balapandita-e.htm
With best wishes

Only in a vertical view, straight down into the abyss of his own personal existence, is a man capable of apprehending the perilous insecurity of his situation; and only a man who does apprehend this is prepared to listen to the Buddha's Teaching.
Nanavira Thera - Notes on Dhamma
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genkaku
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Re: Do animals meditate?

Post by genkaku »

My very-poorly informed and largely uninterested understanding of Buddhist approaches to animals (other than human beings) is like some of what has been expressed above: Since animals other than human beings lack self-awareness or self-consciousness, they also lack the capacity to meditate, by any usual defined understanding of that word.

Whether this is better or worse, higher or lower, karma-linked or not, I haven't got a clue, but I do admire the straightforwardness and acts of what human animals might call kindness in our four-legged, winged and finned friends.
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Dhammabodhi
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Re: Do animals meditate?

Post by Dhammabodhi »

I don't know whether animals meditate or not, but this big cat earned a lot of merit I'm sure.
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Re: Do animals meditate?

Post by Dhammakid »

Dhammabodhi wrote:I don't know whether animals meditate or not, but this big cat earned a lot of merit I'm sure.
Wow, that's an amazing video. I've seen this on various documentaries about the wild. It's clear from these types of stories that animals are indeed capable of good karma production. Even the Buddha tells of his good karma production in various animal lives.

Of course, since the big cat is female, could her actions towards the baby baboon be more maternal instinct than some level of knowledgeable and aware good karma production? Would a male cat do the same?

However, the answer to the original question is indeed no, animals cannot meditate as it is defined in Buddhism. If they could, they would be capable of liberation, and we know this is not the case. The animal world is marked by immense suffering and a great level of passion, both hindrances along the path. What might be perceived as some level of concentration in an animal is most likely just resting or giving up.

Remember, Right Mindfulness and Right Concentration both come at the end of the Path. Proper mindfulness cannot be developed without good moral behavior. It is a well held Theravadin belief that immorality is an impediment to good meditation practice.

:anjali:
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acinteyyo
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Re: Do animals meditate?

Post by acinteyyo »

I am totally amazed that such a thing happened. What a wonderful world... remarkable
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cooran
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Re: Do animals meditate?

Post by cooran »

but what happened to the baby baboon next? Did she tire of it in a few more hours?
was it like cats playing with mice for a while before, eventually, getting hungry and killing them?
What happened the day after and in the days to come - a baby baboon needs a lot of feeding and care.

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acinteyyo
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Re: Do animals meditate?

Post by acinteyyo »

I don't really care what happened to the baby next... it is just a big cat not a monkey and I don't think the big cat is capable of taking care of the babymonkey sufficiently. if it would be normal that big cats raise little baby monkeys we would probably see such things more often, who knows... but the predator does not seem to kill out of fun. predators dinner is assured why killing a more or less usefull babymonk and then I think it's remarkable that instead of leaving the useless babymonkey alone, it seems big cat shows some kind of child welfare for the monkeybaby, furthermore even if big cat is still hungry after monkeyparent and dicides to hunt and kill the babymonkey too, well... that's life. :shrug: :popcorn:
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.
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Dhammabodhi
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Re: Do animals meditate?

Post by Dhammabodhi »

Chris wrote:but what happened to the baby baboon next? Did she tire of it in a few more hours?
was it like cats playing with mice for a while before, eventually, getting hungry and killing them?
What happened the day after and in the days to come - a baby baboon needs a lot of feeding and care.

metta
Chris
I read somewhere that the baby died the next morning, of natural causes. This needs authentication though.

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Quinn
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Re: Do animals meditate?

Post by Quinn »

Hi :hello:
haaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaa haaaaaa haaaa haa haa ha :jumping:
you are all just crazy :cookoo: :rofl:

bye ha

Quinn
May the power of the Buddha be with you!!!
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