2 Buddhisms? Ajahn Brahm and Thanisarro Bhikkhu

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Jetavan
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Re: 2 Buddhisms? Ajahn Brahm and Thanisarro Bhikkhu

Post by Jetavan »

waterchan wrote: The problem with that being there are roughly 192,723 interpretations of what "the Dhamma" is. My solution to this conundrum is to....
And now there are 192,724 interpretations. :smile:
Spiny Norman
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Re: 2 Buddhisms? Ajahn Brahm and Thanisarro Bhikkhu

Post by Spiny Norman »

soapy3 wrote: Thanisarro Bhikkhu seems to be closer to the suttas, at least his translations of them. .........
Ajahn Brahm seems to be further away from the suttas....
This is a theme which comes up regularly in debates on rebirth, ie whether one's understanding is based primarily on what the suttas say, or on the interpretations of contemporary teachers.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
hermitwin
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Re: 2 Buddhisms? Ajahn Brahm and Thanisarro Bhikkhu

Post by hermitwin »

AB has to cater to a much wider audience.

He travels to different countries and has a youtube channel.
Some of his fans are not even Buddhists eg Indonesian muslims.

But AB was the expert on the suttas in WPP。

I dont see any contradiction in the fundamentals.

The personality is very different.
You will seldom find a monk as cheerful and loves to tell silly jokes like AB.

I like both of them, IMO they are shining examples of the Thai forest tradition.
binocular
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Re: 2 Buddhisms? Ajahn Brahm and Thanisarro Bhikkhu

Post by binocular »

rowboat wrote:(Tangent: I'd like to see more long dhamma talks by Thanissaro Bhikkhu. Like this excellent four hour exposition on the five aggregates: http://mirror1.birken.ca/dhamma_talks/i ... egates.mp3 )
At http://dhammatalks.org/ there are two kinds of talks:
Evening Dhamma Talks
The talks on this page were given by Thanissaro Bhikkhu during the evening meditation sessions at Metta Forest Monastery. Each talk generally lasts between ten and twenty minutes.

Short (Morning) Dhamma Talks
These recordings of short Dhamma talks by Thanissaro Bhikkhu were given to the lay community of Metta Forest Monastery most mornings in both English and Thai. The English portion has been excerpted and offered here for downloading. The talks last about 3 to 5 minutes and are useful reminders for the practice.

For longer talks, see - http://www.audiodharma.org/teacher/16/
http://www.dharmaseed.org/teacher/179/
Tricycle has some talks too, but they are available under subscription.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
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Cittasanto
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Re: 2 Buddhisms? Ajahn Brahm and Thanisarro Bhikkhu

Post by Cittasanto »

Ben wrote:Theravada is not monolithic. There is a very wide variety of approaches that is described as Theravada.
As to whether either one is closer to what the historical Buddha taught, that is impossible to know. But in the scheme of things, they have far more in similarity than they are different.
My advice to you is to find a teacher that appeals to you and devote yourself to that teachers approach exclusive
For at least a year.
:anjali:
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
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Dan74
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Re: 2 Buddhisms? Ajahn Brahm and Thanisarro Bhikkhu

Post by Dan74 »

I think treachers and students inevitably bring their personalities to the way they impart and learn the Dhamma. This can also change with age as it was noted above Ajahn Brahm used to be quite different.
_/|\_
SarathW
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Re: 2 Buddhisms? Ajahn Brahm and Thanisarro Bhikkhu

Post by SarathW »

Two football match commentators may give two completely different commentaries.
What important is how you perceive the match. :popcorn:
They all depend on your vantage point.
Even Buddha taught differently to different people.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Spiny Norman
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Re: 2 Buddhisms? Ajahn Brahm and Thanisarro Bhikkhu

Post by Spiny Norman »

SarathW wrote:Two football match commentators may give two completely different commentaries.
What important is how you perceive the match. :popcorn:
I'd be inclined to listen to both commentaries. ;)
Buddha save me from new-agers!
soapy3
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Re: 2 Buddhisms? Ajahn Brahm and Thanisarro Bhikkhu

Post by soapy3 »

Dan74 wrote:I think treachers and students inevitably bring their personalities to the way they impart and learn the Dhamma. This can also change with age as it was noted above Ajahn Brahm used to be quite different.

I think both Ajahn Brahm and Thanisarro Bhikkhu are about the same age.
SarathW
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Re: 2 Buddhisms? Ajahn Brahm and Thanisarro Bhikkhu

Post by SarathW »

I have seen many teachers give emphasis to different aspects of Noble Eightfold Path.
Many Sri Lankan monks, I know give emphasis to giving (Dana) and Virtues (Sela).
It appears to me Ajahan Braham stress on Jhana or Samadhi.
Ven. Thannisaro is a must if you want to understand Sutta and develop Panna (wisdom)
They all lead to the same goal Nibbana.
:)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
soapy3
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Re: 2 Buddhisms? Ajahn Brahm and Thanisarro Bhikkhu

Post by soapy3 »

Good morning SarathW,

I wasn't referring to the topics those men focus on, but the way they choose to focus on those topics, the words they pick, the way they frame those topics and life.

If it wasn't for Ajahn Brahm, I would be done with Theravada Buddhism aside from using it as a support for meditation.

I've found that the way TB, BB, and some others frame things to be gloomy, negative.......negatively inspiring.

That point was brought home to me even more in the past few months trying to deal with the death and other losses I experienced. I kept thinking about how other people had inspiring stories or beliefs to tell themselves. I did not. All I had were my echoes of TB & BB's writings on Buddhism. Not much in the way of emotional comfort in hard times.

Luckily, I knew about Ajahn Brahm. On the many nights were I couldn't sleep, couldn't sit still, and had to go out walking at all hours listening to his talks on my phone was a comfort.
culaavuso
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Re: 2 Buddhisms? Ajahn Brahm and Thanisarro Bhikkhu

Post by culaavuso »

soapy3 wrote: I've found that the way TB, BB, and some others frame things to be gloomy, negative.......negatively inspiring.
Here are some passages that might seem more bright and positive that may provide some useful context for Ven. Ṭhānissaro Bhikkhu's other teachings:
[url=http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/lifeisnt.html]Life Isn't Just Suffering[/url] by Ven. Ṭhānissaro Bhikkhu wrote: "He showed me the brightness of the world."

That's how my teacher, Ajaan Fuang, once characterized his debt to his teacher, Ajaan Lee. His words took me by surprise.
...
Yet for a long time I couldn't shake the sense of paradox I felt over how the pessimism of the Buddhist texts could find embodiment in such a solidly happy person.

Only when I began to look directly at the early texts did I realize that what I thought was a paradox was actually an irony — the irony of how Buddhism, which gives such a positive view of a human being's potential for finding true happiness, could be branded in the West as negative and pessimistic.
...
If we negotiate life armed with all four noble truths, realizing that life contains both suffering and an end to suffering, there's hope: hope that we'll be able to sort out which parts of life belong to which truth; hope that someday, in this life, we'll discover the brightness at the point where we can agree with the Buddha, "Oh. Yes. This is the end of suffering and stress."
[url=http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/candy.html]Trading Candy for Gold[/url] by Ven. Ṭhānissaro Bhikkhu wrote: Buddhism takes a familiar American principle — the pursuit of happiness — and inserts two important qualifiers. The happiness it aims at is true: ultimate, unchanging, and undeceitful. Its pursuit of that happiness is serious, not in a grim sense, but dedicated, disciplined, and willing to make intelligent sacrifices.
[url=http://www.dhammatalks.org/Archive/Writings/CrossIndexed/Uncollected/MiscEssays/The%20Karma%20of%20Happiness.pdf]The Karma of Happiness[/url] by Ven. Ṭhānissaro Bhikkhu wrote: From a Buddhist point of view, optimism is simply one of a series of useful attitudes to have toward the future. Sometimes confidence is called for, sometimes caution, sometimes obsessive care. What we need is skill in discerning which attitude is most appropriate for which situation and then putting it into use.
...
And the Buddha found ... that when the mind stops fabricating a self, everything opens to a happiness totally independent of conditions—the one happiness that doesn’t depend on actions, doesn’t have a price, one so total that no questions have to be asked.
This sort of happiness doesn’t lend itself to being tested by the experimental methods of positive psychology or any other branch of psychology. But if psychologists could remain open to the possibility that there’s an unadulterated happiness that doesn’t fit into their framework of a full or meaningful life, it would serve as a sign that they had become genuinely wise.
soapy3
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Re: 2 Buddhisms? Ajahn Brahm and Thanisarro Bhikkhu

Post by soapy3 »

Hi culaavuso,

Quoting the positive things Thanisarro Bhikkhu has to write in a single post only reinforces my view that he generally has negative things to say.

No disrespect, you post gave me a good idea. Asking people who are into TB what they find inspiring in those writings and why.
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VinceField
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Re: 2 Buddhisms? Ajahn Brahm and Thanisarro Bhikkhu

Post by VinceField »

soapy3 wrote:Hi culaavuso,

Quoting the positive things Thanisarro Bhikkhu has to write in a single post only reinforces my view that he generally has negative things to say.

No disrespect, you post gave me a good idea. Asking people who are into TB what they find inspiring in those writings and why.
Funny how perception works, huh?

I listen to Thanissaro's dhamma talks every day and I receive nothing but positive inspiration and very beneficial insight and advice for my own practice. I can't say that there was ever a case of me perceiving something negative or gloomy about anything I have heard him say.

Since you are bringing this idea to the table (that Thanissaro Bhikkhu's teachings have a negative tone), why don't you provide us with some specific quotes in which you find to be negative. Perhaps the issue lies more in your perception than in what is actually being said. If you provide exactly what you believe he teaches that is negative and explain exactly why you think it is so, perhaps we can provide you with some perspective and help you see the teachings in a more positive light, the way myself and I'm sure countless others perceive them, the way they are meant to be received.
SarathW
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Re: 2 Buddhisms? Ajahn Brahm and Thanisarro Bhikkhu

Post by SarathW »

Some times I wonder whether we learn from others or just get the confirmation on which we already have (known).
:thinking:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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